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Tech Giants, Generational Divides & Gaza Aid - Q+A
https://youtu.be/-ZeBDLxabqY?t=32m55s
2024/03/12
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"We haven't even talked about the price gouging.
"Corporations took advantage of the inflationary environment, they raised prices."
- @StephanieKelton on @QandA
#auspol #ausecon
「価格つり上げについてはまだ話し合っていません。
「企業はインフレ環境を利用して価格を引き上げた。」
- @StephanieKeltonオン@QandA
#auspol #ausecon
look
36:02at people who've done the autopsy that go back and really do detailed analysis and say where did this inflation come
36:08from that we've experienced over the course of the last three years or so it came from the supply side it came from
36:14the bottlenecks in production and later from the you know war in Ukraine and Russia it came from energy and food
36:20prices very little look at the San Francisco Federal Reserve look at Moody's Analytics anybody who's done
36:26these anal is the ECB will tell you look we haven't even talked about the price gouging corporations took advantage of
36:33the inflationary environment they raised prices so some of it came from there but very little of the inflation for those
36:40who've actually done the work and tried to explain it we'll say that it came from governments just simply spending
36:45too much the RBA in Australia said that between they modeled it in different ways but between a third and a half of
36:52the inflation outbreak in Australia was demand side not as an economist may I make a point sure sure look into these
36:58models they are a little a little bit like sausages if you know what's in them you don't want to touch them you
36:02解剖を行った人々を見て、遡って実際に詳細な分析をして、このインフレはどこから来たのかと言っています
36:08過去3年ほどの間に私たちが経験したことはそれは供給側から来た それは
生産のボトルネックから来ました そしてその後、ウクライナとロシアでの戦争から来ました それはエネルギーと食料から来ました
36:20価格はサンフランシスコ連邦準備理事会をほとんど見ていません ムーディーズ・アナリティクスを見てください やった人は誰でも
36:26これらのことは ECB が教えてくれるでしょう、私たちは価格つり上げについてさえ話していません
36:33彼らはインフレ環境を利用して価格を引き上げたので、一部はそこから来ましたが、これらの人々のインフレはほとんどありませんでした
36: 40実際に仕事をして説明しようとした人は、政府が単に支出しただけだと言うだろう
の3分の1から半分の間だと述べた
:52オーストラリアでのインフレの発生は、経済学者としてではなく、需要側にあったのですが、これらの
モデルを必ず調べておいてください。36:58モデルは少しソーセージに似ています。中に何が入っているか知っているなら、触りたくないでしょう。
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オーストラリア政府、日本政府、
33:06政府、英国政府、米国政府、カナダ政府などの通貨発行政府の能力について正直になり、
33:13自国の通貨で運営されている国は、独自の通貨を発行する 予算を運用できないし運用でき
ない
33:27お金を見つけてください。あたかも私たちがまだ金本位制で運営されていると思っているようで、
33:32お金を使うためには誰かが地面に穴を掘って金を引き出さなければなりません、それは問題だけです33:38さらに借金が増えるのは
問題だ 33:38インフレ それは問題ないけど、今のところ借金については何も言っていない 33:44
お金がどこから来るのかについて、同じように率直に会話しようとしているだけだから、現代ではそれを理解しましょう
33:51オーストラリア政府がもっと支出したいと判断したとき、指示は準備銀行に送られ、政府が支出できる唯一の方法
は 33:57準備銀行が預金額を増やすために銀行口座の数字を変更することだ34:04
お金が作成される それが機能する他の方法があるわけではありません これが機能する唯一の方法は政府です
34:09政府は使いたいと言っています 準備銀行が政府に代わって支払いを実行し、それを使用します34:15
コンピューターのキーボードが銀行口座の数字を変えるだけで、新しいお金が生まれるだけで、私たちはみんな深呼吸できる
34:21政府はお金がなくなることはないが、買うものがなくなる可能性があることを知っているからinfl が問題だ
34:27 破産しないこと、国が破産しないことを心配しなければならない 国民向けクレジットカードはない
34:33 大人の会話が必要
32:54elevator pitch of what that means？
33:00be honest about the capacity of a currency issuing government like the Australian government the Japanese
33:06government the British government the US government the Canadian government and so forth and so on and recognize that
33:13countries that operate with their own currency that issue their own currency do not and cannot operate their budgets
33:20like a household that things simply work differently and when you talk about governments needing to quote unquote
33:27find the money it's as if we think we're still operating on a gold standard and somebody's got to go dig a hole in the
33:32ground and and pull gold out in order to be able to spend money that's but the issue with going into more debt is
33:38inflation that's the issue is okay but I didn't say anything about debt so far I'm just trying to have a like candid
33:44conversation about where the money comes from so let's understand that in the modern era when the Australian
33:51government decides it wants to spend more the instructions go to The Reserve Bank and the only way the government can
33:57spend is for the Reserve Bank to change the numbers in the bank account so that the dep the deposits increase and the
34:04money is created it's not like there's some other way for it to work there's only one way for this to work government
34:09says it wants to spend the Reserve Bank carries out the payments on behalf of government and it does so using nothing
34:15more than a computer keyboard changes the numbers up in the bank accounts new money is created we can all take a deep
34:21breath knowing that the government can't run out of money but it can run out of things to buy so infl is the thing
34:27you've got to worry about not insolvency not bankrupting your country there is no national credit card we need to have a
34:33grownup conversation
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https://x.com/findingmoneydoc/status/1767319767097221513?s=61
Tech Giants, Generational Divides & Gaza Aid - Q+A
Tech Giants, Generational Divides & Gaza Aid
This week on Q+A we ask: who wins in the new economy?
Rampant inflation may have peaked, but Australians still feel under the pump. Treasurer Jim Chalmers says cost of living is his top priority - “but it’s not our only concern”.
Painful interest rate hikes have slowed economic growth. Recession remains a possibility. Governments are mired in debt. Indefinite war in Europe and the Middle East is spooking markets. Technology is reshaping economies - and monopolising our money and attention.
On Monday, a panel of economic heavy-hitters break down the global economic landscape - and warn about the dangers of big tech becoming big brother.
Discuss the Questions
Here are the questions our panel faced this week. You can discuss their answers on the Q+A Facebook Page.
BIG TECH POWER
01:32
Zubeyda Karabulut Korkmaz asked: In what ways could the economic power and global reach of tech giants undermine or challenge the authority of national governments?
BIG TECH HARM PREVENTION
14:11
Jane Hasler asked: I'm part of a dying breed of people who've lived a good chunk of my life without technology. As such I feel responsible for helping to prevent harm to younger people from the tech companies. We need to promote critical thinking, sports and creativity. Do you agree and can you please suggest other actions to prevent this harm?
INTERGENERATIONAL INEQUALITY
22:09
Aidan Nguyen asked: Intergenerational equity - the idea that we can leave behind promises and opportunities that are as good if not better for the next generation than the previous. It feels like it is fundamentally under threat from the way our current economic system has been set-up, particularly with how we've designed our property and income incentives. Does the panel agree, and if so, what needs to change?
UNRWA FUNDING
38:28
Shravan Nagesh asked: With the holy month of Ramadan underway - a time of fasting, prayers & coming together for the Muslim community - is this the 'appropriate time' as mentioned by Mr. Albanese and possibly the best opportunity, for the government to resume funding for UNRWA?
TRUMP SUPPORT
47:45
Gordon Ketelbey asked: Is Trump support less than is portrayed? Are there a whole block of rusted on Republicans who won't vote for Trump for reasons such as the abortion changes, his attack on Democracy on the 6th of January, Ukraine and other antics. Is this block large enough to keep him out of office?
AUSTRALIAN MANUFACTURING
53:26
Ryan Young asked: I am from a bathroom & plumbing supplies retailer who sells products made in Germany & Italy. These products are made in countries with similar wages, unionism and costs associated with manufacturing products in their own country. Why then, does a country who has made a fortune digging valuable resources out of the ground not have the capacity to make these products here, particularly given the reduced freight costs to the consumer of homegrown products compared to those made in Europe?
今週のQ+Aで私たちは尋ねます：新しい経済で誰が勝ちますか？
急激なインフレはピークに達したかもしれませんが、オーストラリア人はまだポンプの下にあると感じています。財務官のジム・チャルマーズは、生活費が彼の最優先事項であると言います - 「しかし、それは私たちの唯一の関心事ではありません」。
痛みを伴う利上げは経済成長を遅らせた。景気後退の可能性はまだある。政府は借金に陥っている。ヨーロッパと中東の無期限戦争は市場を怖がらしている。テクノロジーは経済を再構築し、私たちのお金と注意を独占しています。
月曜日、経済ヘビーヒッターのパネルは、世界経済の状況を打破し、ビッグテックがビッグブラザーになる危険性について警告します。
質問について話し合う
私たちのパネルが今週直面した質問は次のとおりです。Q+AのFacebookページで彼らの答えについて話し合うことができます。
ビッグテックパワー
01:32
Zubeyda Karabulut Korkmazは尋ねました：ハイテク大手の経済力と世界的なリーチは、どのような方法で国家政府の権威を弱体化させたり、挑戦したりすることができますか？
ビッグテックの危害防止
14:11
ジェーン・ハスラーは尋ねました:私は技術なしで私の人生のかなりの部分を生きてきた人々の瀕死の品種の一部です。そのため、私はハイテク企業からの若者への害を防ぐ責任があると感じています。批判的思考、スポーツ、創造性を促進する必要があります。同意しますか？この害を防ぐために他の行動を提案していただけますか？
世代間の不平等
22:09
エイダン・グエンは尋ねました：世代間の公平性 - 前世代よりも次世代にとって良いとはしないにしても、良い約束と機会を残すことができるという考え。現在の経済システムの設定方法、特に財産と所得のインセンティブをどのように設計したかから、根本的に脅威にさらされているように感じます。パネルは同意しますか？もしそうなら、何を変更する必要がありますか？
UNRWAの資金調達
38:28
シュラヴァン・ナゲシュは尋ねました:ラマダンの聖なる月が進行中 - イスラム教徒のコミュニティのための断食、祈り、そして集まる時間 - これはアルバネーゼ氏が述べたように「適切な時間」であり、おそらく政府がUNRWAへの資金提供を再開するための最良の機会ですか?
トランプ支援
47:45
ゴードン・ケテルビーは尋ねた:トランプの支持は描かれているよりも少ないのか?中絶の変更、1月6日の民主主義への攻撃、ウクライナ、その他のふざけた態度などの理由でトランプに投票しない共和党員に錆びたブロック全体がありますか。このブロックは彼をオフィスから遠ざけるのに十分な大きさですか？
オーストラリアの製造業
53:26
ライアン・ヤングは尋ねました：私はドイツとイタリアで作られた製品を販売するバスルーム&配管用品小売業者の出身です。これらの製品は、同様の賃金、組合主義、および自国で製品を製造することに関連するコストを持つ国で製造されています。では、なぜ、地面から貴重な資源を掘って大金を稼いだ国は、特にヨーロッパで作られたものと比較して、自家製製品の消費者への貨物コストが削減されたことを考えると、ここでこれらの製品を作る能力を持っていないのですか?
Tech Giants, Generational Divides & Gaza Aid Q+A
stream the full series on ABC I view tonight who are governments governing for a panel of economic Heavy Hitters are here to answer your questions yanes yakis was the Finance Minister for Greece who's now warning governments of the pervasive power of the tech Giants American Economist Stephanie Kelton says not all government debt is bad debt journalist Joe Aston who's applied the blowtorch to corporations like Quant industry and science minister Ed husic wants to curb the power of big Tech while key Senator Jackie lamby has pushed for more relief for households struggling with the cost of living welcome to [Applause] [Music] Q&A [Applause] hello I'm Patricia caralis I want to pay my respects to the gadigal people of the eora Nation on Whose land we are meeting remember you can live stream us around the country on rvu and all the socials quandra is the hashtag please get involved to get us started tonight here's a question from Zaba uh cormax good evening in what way could the economic power and Global reach of tech Giants undermine or challenge the authority of national governments jannis this is nothing new the great conglomerates that emerged at the beginning of the 20th century you think of you Thomas Edison and Westinghouse and you CP in Germany they always had more power than the presidents and the prime ministers this is not what is new what what I find new and very worrying and that's what I try to bring to the attention of not governments but citizens primarily is that now there's a new form of capital Machinery you know when Henry Ford created the production lines for the Model T and so on the Machinery that was using was produced in order to produce other stuff like the Model T but now what's inside your phone again is Machinery but its business is to modify our behavior and to create whole Platforms in which consumers capitalists are all vessels are all we are all drawn into this they're not working on behalf of producers they are capturing producers they are capturing polies they algorithmic Capital extracts gigantic grants you know um money without producing anything they are not producing anything they are modifying our Behavior so the moment you enter amazon.com you've exited capitalism youve exited the market that's not a market it looks like a market it looks like a market so what is it it's not a market what is it it's look think about it it's like a fdom made of digital algorithmic Capital the moment you step in it you cannot talk to anyone to anyone unless the algorithm of Jeff Bezos matches you with a producer so as to maximize the amount of value that it extracts from you and from the producer and that value is extracted from the circular flow of income from the economy which means that demand for goods and services goes down jobs become BS this is a scientific term and um and and and we have stagnation and very low actual investment in the things that Society needs okay there you are this is different to what we had 100 years ago there has been a shift Joe Aston in fact it was today that the head of Australia's biggest bank the Commonwealth Bank made the point that the focus should be on regulating big Tech not focusing on Australian companies like Banks because big Tech is where the focus should be jeez we can't do two things at once we'll just do both of them feding well yeah I mean there's a point there that everyone in this debate is talking their own book when when one party is saying to about another counterparty regulate them this has been going forever uh but you know the big tech companies what that they're still it's been 11 years since the G20 made its focus I think it was in St Petersburg uh making these companies pay tax at the source of their income uh and that's what the whole PWC tax leak Scandal was about last year and and they still don't I mean the the major technology companies pay just a a negligible amount of of company Tax in Australia uh so that's that's one of the ways in which we completely fail to regulate them still right okay it hes cure the minister uh you all up yeah how do you begin to begin the project of regulating them and can and at the essence of the question is can National governments be have have sway can actually have they have influence uh I think on a number of levels it's got to operate I I think it's very difficult for individual governments uh to do so I think one of the turning point in my mind having followed this space for a similar amount of time as what Joe was reflecting on a few moments ago around the taxation Arrangements of big Tech uh and it was something that I I did focus on as a parliamentarian and particularly the way it had an interplay in pricing of products uh it was uh certainly evident to me back then that unless you got governments to work together and agree to work together you wouldn't really go anywhere quickly and in the last in particular the last few months um and I went to this AI safety Summit in London back in November m 30 countries there it was the first time countries had actually taken seriously the need to look at what's going to be done around AI particularly because not just because of the tech but what it does in terms of powering companies and the wealth of those companies and the influence of those companies as well and so I think we've gone through a bit of a turning point um there'll always be a question there'll always be someone saying we've got to do it faster we should have done it yesterday is there an appetite for regulation uh well I think uh across well a number of areas if you look at it be you know what we're seeing right now with the way that meta is trying to effectively you know Thug the situation around the news media bargaining code okay okay that's a particular example AI um well in in that case it's basically us determining where we go to within the framework of the media bargaining laws and whether or not uh meta gets designated uh and that will require them to come to the bargaining table uh that's got to be worked through as as well as on the AI side making sure that um these companies aren't going ahead doing whatever they want regardless of risk they've got to be able to take into account what impact their products have on the rest of the country are met acting like thugs well I think they've just basically got used to this um uh approach they did this a couple of years ago they withdrew their services um you know they basically got hounded back uh in they're doing it to the Canadians in one shape or form or another and it's really up to governments to be able to tag team because the effects of what they're doing particularly around social media and the potential for disinformation as well on their platforms that is serious in terms of the operation of democracies in a year where about half the world's population is going to be going an election Jackie lamb do you think met are thugs are you worried about the power that they have yeah they're bloody thugs they're like the banks let's be honest they've got way too much power and you need to do something I've got kids out there that are highly addicted to this sort of stuff and it is good getting worse and it needs to be shut down the misinformation especially around um especially you see that going on around political elections things like that this has got to be stopped these guys need to be fined or stand up to them and say get out then get out okay but if you send them out Stephanie is that like can you do that well you could do it I mean we just had in the US uh a hearing one of many and you know there's a lot of bipartisan interest in this subject and they lined up the CEOs of Facebook and Twitter X and Snapchat and Tik Tok and you know sat these men and women down and one after another members of the you know US Senate said this is a bill I've co-sponsored with and each of the bills was co-sponsored with someone from the other political party so the politicians are out there they're saying we've got all of these things we'd like to do and then the question was to the CEO do you support this legislation and one after another they went down the list and say senator I'm not prepared to support that legislation today as if you're asking them for the permission s to regulate them this is the problem right so the US situation is is where the rubber hits the road the online harm uh movement in Congress if they really nail uh particularly meta um on this partic on this particular issue they have the potential to be treated as the next tobacco but the Australian government isn't doing anything serious I mean the news bargaining media code is is I mean the amount of money we're talking about is risible uh meta is choosing not to pay 70 million anymore I me7 million I mean I think Josh fredenberg spent that much on car parks in kuong that were never built it's if if if the if you're solving for a problem in the news media bargaining code that Australian journalism is what would you do if you in charge well I'm not in charge that's why that's why I get to sit in the cheap seats and just opine constantly hey that's not a cheap seat Honestly though what should they do what can I yeah give one example to the minister in particular how about charging a tax a digital tax on the revenues of every transaction every time anyone pays Facebook money in order to promote their event their political views their you know commercial activities they should be charged some like 5% on their revenue that is on the revenue side of things you cannot regulate the content because let's face it the managers of Facebook do not understand the algorithms it's a bit like in the banking system with a with those uh Weapons of Mass Financial destruction that blew up and you know the world of finance and brought us to the GFC the very Financial Engineers that were were creating those derivatives didn't know what was you know the mathematical formulas within it so unless we take a view that this kind of capital which I called Cloud capital algorithmic capital call call it what you may is a serious threat to our society our social fabric our economy our effective demand our tax base and go in a very radical Direction which I'm going to propose now to say to Facebook if you want to operate in Australia you are going to have to deposit a certain percentage of your shares in an Australian Sovereign fund and therefore acquire returns to Capital as well as voting power inside that Corporation and if you don't want it you can buger off something that you just there's this one small problem uh and that is that Facebook would destroy the Australian government just like the mining companies did to the Australian government but that's a recipe for simply giving up on the smidgen of an iota of a possibility of democracy this is the power you're talking about you're talking about incredibly powerful compan that's why politics is irreplaceable it's not a technical fix right I'm interested in that you say it would destroy the government well that's what I that's what I would do if I was that's how I would respond if I was in that position and that is why the government any government has a duty to the Australian people to organize politically a democratic a democratic debate for resisting those um but Joe reckons they can't win it Ed can you win it I uh have to say I've looked at a number of Industries where uh you know their actions have got the backs of people up um you know I I fought a few years ago against the gas sector over the prices that they were charging uh there's only so far you could push uh but Tech is different in this country and I I think in most political environments and picking up on Stephanie's point in the US um there's a lot more focus on doing something about tech quite distinct to other sectors and quick question Joe used the term tobacco and I was like do you see them as like big tobacco uh Joe says a lot of things that take on board Joe are they like big tobacco well if you think about uh what are people what what a parents at home concerned about and I say this I'm not a parent but as I understand it the things that people are are are concerned about at home about technology companies is one what are they doing to our children and particularly in you know in terms of body image um and really huge and irreversible emotional damage to the Next Generation two the bastards don't pay any tax where they where they make their income um and that can't be fixed uh easily because the other countries want that income you know the fight is but you can still tax sales here in Australia done through the internet okay and Facebook in particular yeah well because right now Australians are paying you you're we're pay we're going to pay for the damage now that's what we're doing because they're not paying because they have no moral compass all right that's where we're at that gets us to the topic of our online poll we're asking you should Australian Regulators attempt to curb the economic and political power of big tech companies like meta you can cast your votes Anon anonymously on the Q&A Facebook and YouTube accounts or the ABC newsx and Instagram account we'll bring you the results later Facebook account you can vote on their account oh gosh we should have really thought about that guys next we'll hear start you invited Interruption so you can't really we we invite interruptions not heckling though Ed our next question comes from Jane hler great thanks Patricia uh good evening my question is for the panel uh I'm part of the dying breed of people that's lived a large chunk of their lives without technology as such I feel a resp responsibility to protect our younger persons from Tech comp from harm caused by tech companies I believe we need to promote critical thinking Sport and creativity uh in the school system and in The Wider population uh would you agree with this and can you please offer some of your uh suggestions around important actions that need to prevent this harm thank you Jane you're concerned about the impact that social media is essentially having on young people yeah what do you think what do you think it's doing to young people well uh as a sociologist and a parent of eight children my husband and I have eight children ranging from 35 down to 18 we've seen firsthand some harm that can be done and that is the dopamine that can be released you know for younger persons it's very hard for them to get off the technology um we have cyber bullying we have uh the um people competing uh amongst other people on Facebook uh and that leads to depression and anxiety and we have a whole range of issues that are really confronting us and we need to really as a society step up and say we need to really uh protect our younger persons and that's what we feel strongly my husband and myself and many other people so taking it to the panel Jackie how do you even start to deal with so many layers of issues well all the schools around the St can start start making them put them put their phones in their bags first thing in the morning they're not allowed to bring them out to the afternoon we all went through school without phones I think you know that would give them a good 8 hours off for the day that'll be a good start but you are right the addiction I mean parents out there wrote about alcohol and drug abuse and addiction I tell you what watch your kids with tech because uh they are getting addicted uh they're staying up late of a nighttime they're not going to school this is the next generation of addiction I'm very grateful I'm a little bit like you my my boys are a little bit older they missed all that uh so they the only thing they use they have a phone for uh phone calls and um texting but these younger kids out there some of those horrific stories that I'm hearing and uh what they're going through and it is an addiction you can see them it takes two or three days they they it's no different to watch them come off drugs or alcohol I kid you not I've watched this recently and uh watching these the the performance you know this is how bad they're getting they are putting holes in walls the same as drugs and alcohol they are hitting their parents this is the addiction this is Tech addiction this is real this is what it's doing to these young kids uh I think that lots of people have anecdotal evidence for the way it's impacting their families for sure but how do you how do you deal with it at a regulatory or or you know real level to try and stop it I mean it's seems like it's story after Story of parents frustrated what do you do I think that it is largely up to parents and if we could get schools to do more because the tech companies themselves aren't doing it and we know that the algorithms are feeding different kinds of content to kids in different countries I mean I have a 16-year-old daughter and so I know how much time she's on her phone but I also know thank goodness that she and some of her friends are aware of the the dangers and they're aware of what it can do to some of their friends they launched a podcast I watched one of the episodes that she and two other girls recorded really recently where they're talking the whole episode was about social media and the downsides of social media so I'm glad that they'll talk to one another about it I think it probably doesn't happen nearly as often as we'd like but the the onus is on us for the moment Ed it's certainly and picking up on a point that Joe raised earlier around the online harms movement in the the US uh it's certainly been something that we've focused on uh my colleague Michelle Roland is starting to lead that work on developing uh a response on those issues so that we can hold some of these firms to account because they do need to be held to account if they're in particular shaping algorithms in ways that are leading people similar to what Stephanie just mentioned um in terms of the content that's coming forward and just continuing to do that we've seen that in other platforms as well YouTube for example had big issues uh a few years ago uh and had to be pressured to take that seriously in terms of the way its algorithm was feeding up content that was extremist in nature uh and I think there's going to have to be a similar sort of thing that will happen with social media uh as well to be you know part of that you being accountable and solving this issue okay provocative question but Joe have we have we honestly have we are we too late yes like it feels like we're too late have you tried to take a phone off a teenager I have not I wish you luck yeah yeah no the genie is out of the bottle we do have to be real istic about that there is no going back to the days of your you know it's so you got to work with it so what do you do well you tax them no no no the taxation is not going to solve this problem no it's not one one thing you could do is you could um school kids to create their own algorithms on the basis of their own principles and values so you know to create their own algorithm communities outside of Facebook outside of the big tech companies whose algorithms I mean the the algorithm itself is not a problem but an algorithm that has been created in order to create hatred and to create addiction that is the problem so it's a question of property rights who owns the algorithm if you have imagine you had you know the local library together with local schools saying okay here's a project we'll create our own algorithm for discussing amongst ourselves and picking topics and highlighting them in a way that we collectively have agreed that is the right way of communicating but Patricia to to bring another dimension which concerns me regarding young people the death of the liberal individual of the autonomous person I have noticed in universities and talking to young people over the last few years that because think of Google right all those you know all singing old dancing big tech companies in Silicon Valley you go in there um they have very pleasant architecture they have uh ping pong tables it it's very appealing to young people and they all want a job there because these are the good jobs not the B jobs now just looking at my daughter you know when it was 1617 I could see that subconsciously she her friends were very worried about what they were uploading on Tik Tok on Snapchat and all that because they knew dip down subconsciously that one day when they go for a job interview some bot or maybe a person or a person that remind resembles a bot is going to interview them after having checked all their online history so there is no separation like we used to have between work and play between messing around and doing things that will come to haunt you during job interviews that for me is just a a machine creating angst amongst the young regarding their future and that is something that we should tackle surveilling them basically throughout their entire lives and also putting them in a situation of self-censorship at the age of 16 without even realizing it that's a very powerful point we'll keep this discussion going with a question from Aiden Newan this this questions on intergenerational Equity the the idea that we can leave behind promises and opportunities that are as good if not better for the next Generation than the current it feels like it's fundamentally under threat from the way our current economic system has been set up particularly the way we've designed our property and economic incentives does the panel agree and if so what needs to change Joe Cy um well uh housing is is property is is difficult is very difficult and it's a bit like technology the genie is out of the bottle and we're not going back to the days where houses cost you know three times average income so um if your objective is to own a house in in a Sydney or in a Melbourne and you do not have access to the bank of mom and dad you are screwed and um and I would change your objective and that's unfortunate but again like one of those things we can pretend that governments will continue to pretend that they're trying to change it but no government actually wants house prices to fall uh that would be quite a problem for all the voters who own houses uh for them with all the all the voters who own houses so uh the that that it's it's a real tragedy um the I think in terms of the incentives of equity I think uh this country massively over taxes I'm I'm already can't believe I'm saying this in front with two economists on the panel but massively over taxes uh wages and um let's let's and under taxes assets and the income and assets and you heard through that whole stage Street tax cuts there was a lot of class-based language around uh how they were tax cuts for the rich but the truth is that the the VA that the rich the real rich and I understand why someone making $200,000 or $300,000 a year seems Rich to someone who's making $40,000 a year but the truth is that the real rich in this country they don't uh work for uh salaries they they uh they earn income in two ways on the increase in the valuation of their assets and on the income those assets throw off and th those and that income is taxed at a far lower rate than workers who are working for a wage and I think that is is a structural problem with the Australian tax system unfortunately the bad news is that no uh no government will seriously try and change it because it's a great way to lose election because it's a it's a suicide note isn't it to your election champ Jackie lamby uh you're not quite running for prime minister you're a crossbencher so you can kind of you got a little more oh it's early PK just early can you declare your Ambitions to run for prime minister here tonight do we need to get bold and and look at changing the tax Arrangements um we need to do something about the tax Arrangements there's no doubt about that but we also need to do something about the arrangements up here and down here and I'll explain that quickly up here we have uh public servants senior public servants out there and uh Chiefs that our Defense Force are earning twice as much as a prime minister so you tell me how you work that out uh we've got universities out there that have gone into the RO and they've all given themselves those those Vice chancellors have given themselves pay Rises that's what they're doing while their staff are screaming out uh for pay Rises themselves you know that's what we're looking at and then we got down here with these kids these kids Once Upon a Time could go on afford to play play sport now to play sport you can be looking at I think it was $750 that I heard an 11year old old girl in CRA was paying to play for soccer for 20 games this year where are those you know what happens to those families who can't afford that that's without the gear that's without um representing your state which costs more Once Upon a Time you could go to a small business if you have one of your kids representing the state and the small business will give you a small donation of $100 or $50 well small business can't afford to do that either so I've got a big problem from down here I believe that while those kids are in Primary School especially primary school they should not be playing for sports and the state government should be picking that up but let's get the priorities right here up the top here cuz when I'm seeing Vice chancellors that are failing to get their jobs done are failing to get those kids back in universities and are giving themselves pay Rises I have a problem with that so you have an issue with wage inequity I have an issue with W inequity that point that Joe made though that because that's true assets they make money and then you give them to your kids and then they keep making money and it's intergenerational right that's the that's the story whereas wage earners it might be high but that's it yes yeah so but like you said it's like unless you've got a rich unless you've come from a rich family um those assets aren't being part down let's be honest with you we certainly don't have that we're not Sydney and Melbourne in Tasmania we don't have a lot of Rich parents down there they're surviving they're taking their money into age care so they can finish off comfortably they don't have much left for their kids so we do have a problem we have a housing issue out there and like you said it's completely out of control we have lost control out of that and we need to do something about it and we're still arguing about how and where we're building these houses that's where we're at Ed hus do we need a fundamental re shake up conversation I know you're not going to declare sort of a new tax policy tonight but do you think that there's well you know let's you can but I'm living in reality um to address this intergenerational well we just went through a pretty big tax change uh just over the last few months uh that um attracted quite a bit of criticism in terms of reshaping stage three and that's on top of what we've done uh on multinational tax reform and superannuation reform uh as well so I think we've got a lot you know on the on the books as we uh as we speak and getting through all that um being a generational side though just addressing Aiden's uh point is a serious one I mean we're looking at both shortterm and long-term fixes on that um a lot of people have felt like they've been stuck with the same wage for way too long and never saw their wages move and we were actually a government that said we want to see better and wages are now growing way better than they have four years promised by but well I compared to where they're at compared to where they're at doing better they can always always people will want to do better and I get that but for years we lived under conservative governments that said wages would improve and they did nothing about it and they never actually changed and we also wanted to make sure that we made other changes through the taxation Arrangements just mentioned I think the big thing is going going to housing as well um it is complex and I'll take on board Joe's point because you're going to have a whole bunch of people once prices start to go down they get nervous about it but one of the other big things to try and deal with affordability is to actually increase the number of homes I see that in my part of the world in Western Sydney uh and increasingly um people will not be able to move into the city um they're moving further and further out west and I've seen the edge of Sydney continue to move but we are trying to address that housing affordability issue because it's one of the big drivers on your point about intergenerational uh differences when it comes to housing and got to say I take on board the point about um some people handing down houses from one generation to the ne next but I'm from Western Sydney I'm no magnate so I I I don't see necessarily that that that does happen but I do genu genuinely get concerned when I see the cost of homes in my part of the world where I've grown up and know how those prices have moved and we do need to U make a change on that and we are trying to do it both for housing in terms of housing affordability and helping rers to actually buy their first home Aiden which is a demand side what concerns you about this are you able to get into the property market so um for me yes we've been we've been lucky me and my partner um I think very lucky to have secure well paid jobs um but you know when I look at my friends my peers other younger Australians other younger Aussies um I you know I feel for our plight I I don't think the rules as the currently stand um you know really go to solve the longer term issues um I don't think the system's sustainable and I think something has to give it some point Y yep it what has to give priorities and it'll take a government that's got guts to do that do you know you young people are paying more tax than what we get out of our petroleum resources rent tax we have some of some of the most um high rated uh resources in this country and we're getting more out of you young people bu tax than what we are out of Mining and petroleum resource rent tax it comes comes down to priority and it has it comes down having the guts knowing very well you're not going to get a political donation off him next time and that's what it comes down to its priority and it should be about our young people and new people are not being put first and that's what it comes down to and that's the truth of the matter so house prizes are going to keep sorry can I just add to that well said well said Jackie uh Norway taxes the oil industry to subsidize universi education to make it free and to subsidize social housing Australia does exactly the opposite and that is your responsibility as a government yeah and everything I've heard from you today on this issue is a copout it is your responsibility to tax the resource industry to make you know just do away with hex it was a terrible reform by the Alp under the Dawkins reforms it it it was a catastrophe for the universities the quality of University education has suffered but as a result the buildings are much nicer because Vice chancellors receive a million bucks in order to be real estate developers while the levels of University education are plummeting social housing you talked about increasing the supply of housing absolutely what are you doing about that it's not going to increase on its own you need to build social housing we and you're not doing it no no well you can say we're not doing it and that's fine to be living a life fact three are you doing it but the real is that's exactly what we're to do well we've only just started as a new government I I say we've gone from it isn't happening to it is but it's not enough is that what you're arguing or well you haven't done it yeah well there you go and where are you going to get the money from because you're not taxing the resources all right let's go to money because Stephanie you're all about money and uh you're I am all about M I want to go to your modern monetary Theory give me the elevator pitch of what that means it means we want to tell the truth about how the monetary system works we want to be honest about the capacity of a currency issuing government like the Australian government the Japanese government the British government the US government the Canadian government and so forth and so on and recognize that countries that operate with their own currency that issue their own currency do not and cannot operate their budgets like a household that things simply work differently and when you talk about governments needing to quote unquote find the money it's as if we think we're still operating on a gold standard and somebody's got to go dig a hole in the ground and and pull gold out in order to be able to spend money that's but the issue with going into more debt is inflation that's the issue is okay but I didn't say anything about debt so far I'm just trying to have a like candid conversation about where the money comes from so let's understand that in the modern era when the Australian government decides it wants to spend more the instructions go to The Reserve Bank and the only way the government can spend is for the Reserve Bank to change the numbers in the bank account so that the dep the deposits increase and the money is created it's not like there's some other way for it to work there's only one way for this to work government says it wants to spend the Reserve Bank carries out the payments on behalf of government and it does so using nothing more than a computer keyboard changes the numbers up in the bank accounts new money is created we can all take a deep breath knowing that the government can't run out of money but it can run out of things to buy so infl is the thing you've got to worry about not insolvency not bankrupting your country there is no national credit card we need to have a grownup conversation okay Joe do we need to print more money well well as Dr Kelton just said inflation is the thing we need to worry about and it in printing more money causes inflation no it doesn't well okay then I'm wrong um well sure because we it I mean it could well spending not PR not print there's no other way for it to work so I've just explained there is only one way for the government to spend can the government spend too much yes of course we can have in total too much spending in the economy the economy doesn't have the capacity maybe to keep up with all that demand and you get some increase in prices sure but you know we spent the better part of a decade before covid with people saying governments were printing money the US was printing money Japan was printing money the UK was printing money everybody was printing money and there was no inflation for a decade in the US a decade across the Euro zone three decades in Japan printing printing printing no inflation to show for it so inflation finally showed up not because anybody printed any money but because covid showed up and broke Supply chains and then the the inflation was the natural consequence especially given after 15 years of zero investment in Europe and in the united or very little investment in the United States so Supply had been constrained because we were not investing all this time but 100 100% of the inflation was not supply side no but everyone who's looked at this at least in the US contest context but look at the ECB look at people who've done the autopsy that go back and really do detailed analysis and say where did this inflation come from that we've experienced over the course of the last three years or so it came from the supply side it came from the bottlenecks in production and later from the you know war in Ukraine and Russia it came from energy and food prices very little look at the San Francisco Federal Reserve look at Moody's Analytics anybody who's done these anal is the ECB will tell you look we haven't even talked about the price gouging corporations took advantage of the inflationary environment they raised prices so some of it came from there but very little of the inflation for those who've actually done the work and tried to explain it we'll say that it came from governments just simply spending too much the RBA in Australia said that between they modeled it in different ways but between a third and a half of the inflation outbreak in Australia was demand side not as an economist may I make a point sure sure look into these models they are a little a little bit like sausages if you know what's in them you don't want to touch them you know the Ed husic on the big question use that one before it still works well it's it's pretty good but on on inflation price scouching I mean the government has been arguing that it that a lot of it is actually coming from the supply side as well right oh there's been uh def an element of uh immediately postco there was certainly that um we've also looked at and had concerns and again I see it in my own Community when people are going to supermarkets shopping what they're getting in the basket versus um what they used to be able to get for the same amount of money and it's why we've um said we need to have an increased focus and had the A C looking at for example what's happening on that side where it directly affects people uh in the street as it were so there are are those areas I think the difficulty in terms of what you I appreciate what Stephanie was was saying I think the the issue will be that governments around the world I think you appreciate are concerned about where inflation's at still you know some of it's moderating not moving fast enough um we're seeing it stabilize here uh and the issue will be just to to see that actually that fight end yeah uh and see inflation come down now I'd like to bring in Shan nagesh uh thanks Patricia so with the holy month of Ramadan underway a time of fasting prayers and coming together for the Muslim Community is this the appropriate time as mentioned by Mr albanesi and possibly the best opportunity for the government to resume funding for the unrwa yes so anra that's the aid Agency for Palestinians Ed hus I might start with you there uh well the biggest thing um that needs to be front and center here is that um children over there are starving in in Gaza people without food water medicine uh and there is a concern of a further uh loss of life as a result of Israel's military operations uh in in Gaza um we've had that suspension of funding we are working hard and we do need to see funding resumed uh as quickly as possible uh unra doesn't just Supply humanitarian Aid it's responsible for the functioning of community in in Gaza and uh you know there are decisions being made either suspending um help to Gaza seeing Israel's military operations there and the impact that's had on lives lost uh estimated 31,000 plus and nearly 73,000 uh injured um this is uh we we do need to get this restored as quickly as possible and you want it restored to anra uh well once the we've got to go through the investigations and see what they say but that needs to happen as quickly as possible because the government's looking at other options there's a push just this afternoon I'm sure you've seen the stories some people saying um some of the Israeli Lobby groups that they would like to see the money go towards the floating um aid aid um base the peer that they've described the US would that be appropriate I think the best thing that could happen right now is that Israel actually allows humanitarian Aid to go through that's the thing that's not being discussed uh adequately they need to let this happen but why aren't they there is a there is an unprecedented crisis that is happening there and there are decisions life and death decisions that are being made by Israel that need to be dealt with and there needs to be more humanitarian Aid going through and it's not just while we focused on Gaza um there's also in the West Bank uh people are being being prevented in terms of their jobs their incomes um they're economically being crippled in that that part uh as well that hasn't even been contemplated yet where people are begging for cash and heating uh through the course of of winter and uh I think that's another another issue as well that has been missed and needs to be recognized and dealt with so you think the responsibil on Israel uh yeah in terms of humanitarian Aid absolutely and much of the human International Community has been saying this needs to be addressed that innocent civilians should not be paying the price and they should be able to get the aid flowing through a lot quicker and the fact that the US has had to get to that stage of talking about that float you know that floating peer uh demonstrates that um I think in many respects his roers refus refused to listen to what I believe are absolutely not just reasonable but vital calls for people to get the aid that they need so if Israel's not listening should they face sanctions and ramifications well I think you're going to see that enter uh you you'll see that enter into the public uh debate increasingly do you think that we need to start having that conversation it's not not up to me to be floating you know those type of discussions but the point for me is to say certainly that we need to see Israel take a different uh position when it comes to the flow of humanitarian Aid there are at least you know seven different points which that Aid could come through not least of which being through rougher um and that needs to be improved yanis the Australian government has changed its line significantly in the last few months as the death toll has risen signing a joint agreement with New Zealand and Canada uh for instance calling on Israel not to enter into a ground offensive in raer there's been a big shift hasn't there in the world's response NOP too little too late y The Starving Children in Gaza are not starving they are starved intentionally there is a concerted effort by Israel to starve the population of Gaza this is not collateral damage this is an intentional policy it is a war they would argue they would argue that the reason the AIDS not going in yes is uh because Hamas takes the aid and that's the argument they make what what's your response to that that it is evidently not true that there is a policy you've just all you need to do is to listen to Israeli television to listen to Israeli ministers being very clear that they are not letting Aid in as a means of starving the population to submission until Hamas um lays down their arms uh half of the population leave and go to Egypt by denying this funding to the United Nations uh the only Aid agency that can actually bring Aid in into Gaza because you can bring it to the shores of Gaza but how is it going to be distributed the only agency is that and denying defunding it which is what your government did on the basis of un well that's defunding yeah when you have people kids starving to death and you pause you are defunding the amelioration of the starvation of those children and therefore you in my view the Australian the image of Australia has been irreparably damaged by this and now beginning to fund again an organization which can't bring the food in because the Israeli Defense Force is not letting them bring it in it's not they're not even letting the Americans bring it in this is the time for boycotting sanctioning and divesting from Israel and we need to do it on behalf of progressive Israelis who are suffocating in Israel as we speak because they can see that the whole world is looking upon Israel as the source of war crimes we need to make sure that Israeli progressives and humanists do not continue to flee because they're leaving the country and they will surrender the country to the the zelot and the alra Zionist who will make Israel uninhabitable Jackie lambi at the start of this crisis you gave a powerful speech to the parliament you were very um concerned about the Hamas attack as a lot of people have been and should be 5 months into this conflict what are your Reflections do you think Israel's gone too far uh I think Israel is starting to annoy a lot of people out there they're sitting right on the line are they about to go over it if they don't do you think theyve crossed it yet um I will just say they're right on that line I think this has been going on for too long the problem is you do have terrorists and terrorists um are bastards there's no other way to put that anywhere that has terrorists you will have um uh uh destabilization uh through your country there is no doubt about that when you have a group when you have a large group of them that's my first thing but my my second point is this we have a thing out there it's called United Nations okay we have soldiers out there that wear blue caps now I'd like to see Israel take out one of them when they're on the ground passing out food why aren't we talking about putting peacekeepers over there at these checkpoints neutral countries that are not involved okay to make sure this food is getting delivered why aren't we doing that nobody's talking about this and I don't see a reason why not we can't they haven't got months and months those kids over there or those all the adults or anyone on that Gaza Strip it needs to be done tomorrow I would like to see United Nations talking about bringing those blue hats in there on that Gaza Strip cuz I'd like to see bloody Israel try and take one of them out okay Joe Biden will V it again as is Ved every move towards a humanitarian Direction since the beginning it's the United States vetoing and dragging the rest of the West along with them well the rest of the West needs to stand on to2 feet yeah is that is that a viable option the one that has been proposed I mean I this is sort of beyond the scope of uh my area of expertise but it certainly seems like a viable option this is uh an absolute humanitarian disaster every day that passes is another day of L lives and I I mean there's no there's no doubt but that there is an urgent need to act on this to bring this to an end plenty to get to tonight he's Gordon celby evening everybody um my question is uh about the US elections uh very sort of contemporary thing this year is Trump support less than portrayed are there a whole block of rusted on Republicans who won't vote for Trump for reasons such as the abortion changes is Attack on Democracy on the 6th of January Ukraine and other Antics is this block large enough to keep him out of office Stephanie so there are some Republicans who are what they call never trumpers they voted for him once and they have vowed that they will not do it again some are turning to uh RFK Jr as an alternative to Donald Trump um I think with women there is something uh possibly stronger when you say are we underestimating or overestimating the appeal of Donald Trump the abortion issue really does resonate with women including Republican women and I know some of them and I know some of them for whom this issue uh is pushing them into the Joe Biden Camp so at the end of the day you know our political system is so complicated the Electoral College and I mean it really isn't a two-way race it really is uh this third party candidate uh RFK Jr is polling anywhere between 20 and 30% depending on the poll that you look at so any Anything Can Happen really and it I think it largely comes down to um how many votes RFK Jr is pulling from Trump versus Biden and the way the Electoral College works and we got a handful of Swing States nine really important swing States the last poll that I saw had Donald Trump leading in eight of the nine so anything are you really worried that that um Donald Trump will win the next election uh yeah of course how worried very worried and do you think Joe Biden's the right one to take him on well he's our candidate I mean he is the candidate to take him on do you think he can beat him I I I think he can can beat him but again it come it comes down to this weird interplay between the the three leading candidates and the Electoral College and how you get out the vote in these key and it comes down to precincts I mean Hillary Clinton lost by 83,000 votes it's it's narrow narrow margins and it becomes you know who's got the savviest get out the vote team and works those precincts and figures out at the you know at the last moment how the votes are going to stack you've lived in the US do what what do you think of this third candidate business I lived in California I didn't live in the US I I never went actually into real America different country um look I I don't uh I don't I have to say I'm not sufficiently informed really about rfk's campaign but uh it's pretty obvious uh that uh a younger Democratic candidate would have been a very good idea because uh I think Trump wouldn't be in in such a strong position if if they if the Democratic party had been prepared to and President Biden had been able to make the right decision for the country jiannis I think he completely indeterminate it's impossible to predict uh and sometimes it's important to be able to you know confess that we don't know it's good to say that you don't actually know you can't predict the future right what I do suspect is that Biden has lost more of of his core youth vote because of Gaza compared to the Republicans that Trump has lost due to abortion I'm not happy about this I'm simply stating it as a observation estimation but what I find interesting is that on the one hand if you take these issues you have uh Joe Biden who is uh focusing on Trump's misogyny on abortion on uh um these cultural issues which are essential to civilized people in order not to discuss the crushing reality that both white and black workingclass people have minuscule income and zero wealth and that creates a lot of discontent at the same time Trump is addressing these people in a way that Biden cannot because he is so close to Wall Street so close to the elites Trump is is better at addressing they have not in order to usurp their vote and once in the White House do what he did the last time give everything to Wall Street and tax cats to the super rich I think that is the conundrum of the United States and I think we should all be very happy that in Australia we have compulsory voting because because at least you know you know that everybody's going to vote whereas in the United States it's a question of who is going to abstain with greater probability okay we always end up really happy about compulsory voting on this show so let's Round of Applause to yeah honestly it's just like make it gives us a feel-good moment and we can bring you the results of our online poll now we asked you should Australian Regulators attempt to curb the economic and political power of big tech companies like Mesa more than 3,300 of you responded here's how you voted 84% of you say yes 9% said no and 7% are unsure I think that's an overwhelming number next we'll hear from Ryan Young hi uh I from a bathroom and plumbing supplies retailer who sells products made in Germany and Italy these products are made in countries with similar wages unionism and costs associated with manufacturing these products why then does a country who has made a fortune digging valuable resources up from the ground does not have the capacity to make these same products here particularly given the reduced freight cost to the consumer of homegrown products compared to those made in countries like Europe it's a really interesting question you're the minister for the industry and that's how big big Focus I mean coming out of the pandemic and we've spoken about it through the course of the show tonight um you know the things that we needed most weren't there when we needed them uh and that was a pretty important lesson uh for us the impact of Supply chains and geopolitics the way that that's operated and obviously the other big challenge of our time is climate change and the need to reduce emission and I think we can mobilize Australian industry to be part of that and that's why we are focused uh especially on making sure that we are a country that makes things it creates not only the products that we need in those key areas we can't do everything but we will be focused on on key areas we've got to be able to do more in value adding like we in terms of what we have with resources we have the greatest store of critical minerals on the planet and yet we don't really do the extra step of the value ad uh with respect to their uh but also across medical Sciences uh and obviously energy and Emissions uh and emerging capabilities in technology as well where we have a lot of smart people here in this country who feel for whatever reason that they're just not getting the support or interest and leave our Shores to chase what they want to do elsewhere so from our point of view being able to be a country that makes things uh that we sharpen our technology Edge and through that that we create really good secure uh long-term jobs as well well-paying jobs that is a big Focus for us is it going to be easy to sort out no like I'm not coming here saying we're going to fix this in one term we've had uh big in terms of global shifts around manufacturing and also within manufacturing the nature of it uh itself uh but it is something that I think is important and certainly our government thinks important uh longer term to do exactly the type of things you're asking in terms of the question of being able to have our own products when we need need them I think uh there's a very simple question uh sorry very simple answer to your question if you're a German uh manufacturer you have uh huge trade openness with the entire European continent you're talking about 400 million households I'm probably maybe give or take here you you've got your potential customers of 15 million households and the the scale benefits of of that we just can't compete it's that simple and now I I which is why a big Australia is a very good idea um the problem is when we talk about housing um as we continue to grow the population we can't keep up with the housing Supply and that drives up the price of assets so so it's very complicated but I mean there's a lot Australia that keeps up on the infrastructure front is it possible uh H look good question I I would it's a bit like can Trump win the election I would not want to predict uh the future but I I certainly think that there are huge benefits to be unlocked for the the Australian economy if we go uh continue to really aggressively grow the population but yeah we we we have to think about the downsides as well Jackie big population um I don't think we can handle big population right now that's for sure you take more people in Taz our Australia we got no homes down there either mate okay so that's the problem we have we got plenty of homeless out in the street so it be very unfair for me to say to other stalians yes we should we should be asking more a lot more people to come in here when we can't accommodate what's already here I think that rubbish but I also say something about what you were saying yeah make Australia make again that would be fabulous you know I had to have a bit of a make Australia make again yeah I had to I had to have a bit of a giggle today about your um tariffs of um you know $30 million you're going to be able to make out of that because apparently your I think it was your treasure was talking about Chopsticks which I found very amusing so we've learned nothing out of Co because apparently we can't even make chop stits here in this country are we importing them and toothbrushes toothbrushes too Stephanie sorry can I just just jump in very very quickly um the the complex man like the stuff that we need to make in particular like for instance you know if it's a choice between Chopsticks and say for example the next vaccine or the next thing that cures cancer or the next thing though like I tell you we we should be putting our eggs more in that basket that's what we're trying to do like valuable exactly those type of things um and we can't necessarily just we you know Joey is right we can't just rely on our population but the reality is we are also you know we have set up trading relationships particularly within our region and other countries where our products are rated and we do need to be able to bold on markets through that and for us to give up I'm not saying that's necessarily the way that you were putting it but the reality is we've had heaps of people say over the years we just can't do manufacturing and we've seen other countries be able to do manufacturing and with the fact that we've well we might have a small population we got strong trading relationships means we can make it here and ship it everywhere and that's where where our head should be I just don't think we've learned anything out of Co at all we had to wait for supplies to come in uh God help us if if we need to go up there and and protect our country because there's not enough weapons there's hardly any rounds here uh we've got enough fuel to last us two or three days all that's going on by the way just so you know so um I'm not so sure and sooner or later that unemployment rate is going to sneak back up and I tell you what there's a lot more jobs in manufacturing than what there is in making medicines and I don't have a problem with you doing that but you should be able to do both European example big Market is that why we can't make stuff here well okay you mentioned Germany manufactured goods here in Australia we gave up our manufacturing it won't be easy to start manufacturing final goods again uh and it would be futile to try to do it in one go but what we can do in this country is this take Europe Europe is about to introduce a border adjustment carbon tax which means that Chinese electric vehicles going to Europe are going to face a tariff because you know the nickel and Cobalt inside them batteries and so on is produced using brown Technologies not green technologies what Australia could do because we have vast areas ired areas you can just fill them with solar panels just a major new Renewables expansion program for the purposes of creating green hydrogen not to export it you cannot export it in large distances that is crazy uh in order to to create plants for refining Cobalt Copper from South Australia iron steel uh nickel to refine it and make it green before you sell it to the Chinese to put it into their cars to avoid the adjustment so the I'm give you an example of the kind of green Industrial Revolution that Australia can participate in but that requires a government that has a courage to do it it will take something like the investment of the snowy scheme you know big government public investment for the purposes of you know ditching fossil fuels creating Renewables and use them to create a new intermediate manufacturing base nothing else will work that would work and that's all we have
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ハイテク巨人、世代間の分断、ガザ支援 | Q+A
ハイテク巨人、世代間の分断、ガザ支援 Q+A
ABCで全シリーズをストリーミングしてください 今夜視聴します 経済界の重鎮委員会を統治している政府は誰ですか あなたの質問に答えます ヤネス・ヤクスはギリシャの財務大臣でしたが、現在テクノロジー巨人の浸透した力について各国政府に警告しています アメリカの経済学者ステファニー・ケルトン政府債務のすべてが不良債権ではない、とクオント産業・科学大臣のエド・ヒューシッチのような企業に大打撃を与えてきたジャーナリストのジョー・アストン氏は、主要な上院議員ジャッキー・ランビー氏が財政支出に苦しむ家計への更なる救済を求めている一方で、大手ハイテク企業の力を抑制したいと考えている。暮らし ようこそ [拍手] [音楽] Q&A [拍手] こんにちは、私はパトリシア カラリスです。エオラの国のガディガルな人々に敬意を表したいのですが、私たちはその土地で私たちが出会っているのです、覚えておいてください、rvu で私たちを全国にライブ配信できることを覚えておいてくださいそして、すべてのソーシャル問題はハッシュタグです 今夜私たちを始めるために参加してください ザバからの質問です えー、コーマックス こんばんは、ハイテク巨人の経済力と世界的な広がりがどのようにして国家政府の権威を弱体化させたり、挑戦したりすることができますか ジャニス、
0:00ABCで全シリーズをストリーミングして今夜視聴します 政府とは誰ですか
0:06経済界の重鎮たちがあなたの質問に答えるためにここにいます ヤネス・ヤクスは財務省でした
0:14ギリシャ大臣は現在、政府に蔓延する権力について政府に警告していますハイテク巨人のアメリカ経済学者
0:21ステファニー・ケルトンは、すべての政府債務が不良債権ではないと言っている ジャーナリストのジョー・アストン
0:26クオンツ産業・科学大臣のような企業に火をつけたのは誰だ エド・ヒューシッチ
0:32重要な上院議員ジャッキー・ランビーがハイテク大手の力を抑制したいと考えている
0:38生活費に苦しむ世帯へのさらなる救済を求めていますようこそ
0:44[拍手]
0:51[音楽]
0:58Q&A [拍手]
1:08こんにちは、私はパトリシア・カラリスです、敬意を表したいと思いますエオラの国のガディガルな人々、私たちは誰の土地で会っているのですか
1:15覚えておいてください、rvu で全国に私たちをライブストリーミングできます、そしてすべてのソーシャルクアンドドラがハッシュタグです、どうか参加してください
1:20今夜私たちが始めるために参加してください、ザバからの質問です
1:27コーマックス こんばんは、
1:33ハイテク巨人の経済力と世界的展開は、どのような形で各国政府の権威を弱めたり、挑戦したりすることができるのでしょうか 1:40ジャニス これは何も新しいことではありません1:4720世紀の初め
に現れた大複合企業です。
トーマス・エジソンやウェスチングハウス、そしてドイツの共産党のことを考えてください、彼らは常に
大統領や首相よりも1:55大きな権力を持っていました、これは新しいことではありません、私が新しく感じたこと、非常に心配なことです
2:02それが私がもたらそうとしているものです政府ではなく国民の主な関心は、ヘンリー・フォードがモデル T などの生産ラインを作った
ときにご存知の 2:09 新しい形の資本機械が存在するということです。 2:21 使用されていた機械は、モデルTのような他のものを生産しますが、今2:27あなたの携帯電話の中にあるものは再び機械ですが、そのビジネスは私たちの行動を修正し、全体を作成することです2:34消費者資本家がすべて容器であるプラットフォーム全体を作成します2:45私たち全員が描かれているのはそれだけです彼らは生産者に代わって働いているわけではない 彼らは生産者を捕らえている2:51 彼らは政策を捕らえている 彼らはアルゴリズム資本があなたに莫大な助成金を抽出している2:59 何も生産せずにお金を知っている 彼らは何も生産していない 彼らは私たちの行動を修正している だからあなたが3:04 amazon.com に入ってください あなたは資本主義から抜け出しました あなたは市場から出ました それは市場ではありません それは市場のようです それは市場のように見えます それで何ですか3:10 それはそれは市場ではありません それは何ですか それはそれを見てください それはそれを考えてください それはのようです3:15fdom はデジタルアルゴリズムの資本でできており、そこに足を踏み入れた瞬間、あなたは不可能になります
3:22ジェフ・ベゾスのアルゴリズムがあなたとプロデューサー
から抽出する価値の量を最大化するためにあなたとプロデューサーをマッチングさせない限り、誰にでも誰にでも話しかけてください。3:30その価値は収入の循環の流れから抽出されます
3:36経済から見ると、商品やサービスの需要が減り、雇用が減り、BSになる これは科学用語です
3:45そして、えー、そして、私たちは停滞しており、
社会が必要としているものへの実際の投資は非常に低いです 3:50 はい、これは100年前と違って変化があった ジョー
3:57アストン、実はオーストラリア最大の銀行であるコモンウェルス銀行の頭取が今日のことだった
4:02オーストラリアではなく大手テクノロジー企業の規制に焦点を当てるべきだと主張したのは今日のことだった銀行のような企業は、大手テック企業だから
4:09 焦点を当てるべきところは、おいおい、私たちは一度に 2 つのことをすることはできない、両方をうまくやり遂げるだけだ そう、つまり、
この議論に参加している全員が話している点があるということだ 4:17 4:22一方の当事者が他方の
当事者に対して規制することについて自分たちの本を書いているのですが、これは永遠に続いているのですが、大手テクノロジー企業はご存知の通り、彼らはまだどうなっているのでしょう
4:29G20が焦点を当ててから11年になると思いますそれはサンクトペテルブルクでした えー、これらの企業に
収入源で 4:37 税金を支払わせています えー、それが昨年の PWC の税金漏洩スキャンダル全体のことだったのですが、彼らは
4:44 いまだに支払っていません つまり、大手テクノロジー企業が支払っているということです
4:51オーストラリアの法人税はごくわずかですえー、それは私たちが規制を完全に怠っている方法の一つです まだそうです、大丈夫、彼は
4:59大臣を治してください えー、皆さん元気です ええ、どうやって
始めますか 5:04それらを規制するプロジェクトを始めてください、そしてそれは可能であり、問題の本質は、国家
5:11 政府が影響力を持つことができるのか、実際に影響力を持つことができるのかということです、ええと、さまざまなレベルでそれを実行する必要があると思います
II それは非常に難しいと思います個々の政府がそうすること
5:22ジョーが数分前に考えていたことと同じくらいの期間この分野を追いかけてきた私の心の中でのターニングポイントの一つは、
大手テクノロジー企業の税制に関する取り決めのことだと思います
5:28 :33 それは私が国会議員として注目したことであり、特にそれが
製品の価格設定にどのように相互作用するかという点でした 5:39 ああ、確かに当時の私には明白でした、
政府が協力して同意しない限り 5:44一緒に仕事をすると、すぐにどこにも行けなくなるでしょう。
最後の 5 時 51 分、特にここ数か月間、えーっと、私はこの AI 安全性サミットに行きました
5:57 11 月にロンドンで 30 か国が参加したのは、各国が実際に真剣に取り組んだのは初めてでした
6:03 特に、AI に関して何が行われるかを検討する必要があります。なぜなら、テクノロジーのためだけではなく、AI が何をするのか
6:09企業に電力を供給するという条件、その企業の富、そしてそれらの企業の影響力もそうです、そして
6:16だから、私たちはちょっとした転換点を通過したと思います、ええと、いつも疑問が残ります、いつも誰かが言うでしょうもっと早くやらなければいけない
6:22昨日やっておくべきだった 規制を求める気はあるのか ええと、まあ、多くの分野でそうだと思います
6:28それを見れば、私たちが今何をしているかわかるでしょうメタが効果的に知ろうとしている方法で、Thug
6:36ニュースメディアの交渉コードをめぐる状況、わかりました、わかりました、それは特定の 6:42例です、AI そうですね、その場合、フレームワーク内で 6:48
どこに行くかを決めるのは基本的に私たちです
メディア交渉法の規定と、メタが指定されるかどうか
6:54そのためには彼らが交渉のテーブルに着く必要がある 7:01ああ、
これらの企業がそうであることを確認するために AI 側でも解決する必要があるリスクを無視してやりたいことを先に進めるつもりはない
7:06自分たちの製品が他の国に与える影響を考慮に入れなければならない
7:12彼らはよく悪党のように振る舞っていると思う基本的にこのアプローチには慣れてきました、ええと、彼らは数年前にこれを行いました、彼らは
7:19サービスを撤回しました、ええと、あなたは知っています、彼らは基本的に追い詰められました、ええと、彼らはカナダ人に対してある形や形で、または
7:26別の形でそれを行っています
7:31政府が特にソーシャルメディア周りで行っていることの影響とプラットフォーム上での偽情報の可能性は、民主主義の運営という点で深刻なものであるため、チームをタグ付けできるかどうかは政府
次第です。世界人口の約半数が選挙に行く年
7:43 子羊ジャッキー、出会ったのは悪党だと思いますか、彼らの権力を心配していますか、そうです、彼らは血まみれです
7:49 悪党、彼らは銀行のようなものです、正直に言いましょう彼らはあまりにも多くの権力を持っているので、あなたは何かをする必要があります
7:55 この種のものに非常に依存している子供たちがいます、これが悪化するのは良いことです、そしてそれはシャットダウンする必要があります
8:00 特に誤った情報を止めてくださいええと、特に政治選挙の周りで起こっていることがわかります
8:08これは止めなければならないようです、この人たちには罰金を科すか、立ち上がって出て行けと言ってください
8:0814 分かったけど、もしあなたが彼らを送り出すなら、ステファニーは、あなたはそれがうまくできるか、あなたならそれができるでしょう、つまり、私たちはちょうどアメリカにいたばかりだということです
8:20ああ、多くの人の中の一つの公聴会ですが、この問題には超党派の関心が集まっているのがわかります、そして彼らは
FacebookとTwitter XとSnapchatとTik TokのCEOたちを並べました、そしてあなたはこれらの男性が座っていたことを知っています
8:33そして女性たちはご存知の米国上院議員が次々と、これは私が共同提案した法案だと言いました
8:40 そして、それぞれの法案は他の政党の誰かと共同提案したもので、だから政治家たちはそこにいるのです
8:45 彼らは』やりたいことは全部あると言っているのに、CEOにこの
法案を支持しますかという質問があった 8:51そして彼らは次々とリストの下に上がっていき、上院議員は支持する用意がないと言う今日のその法律はまるで規制する許可を求めているかのようだ
8:58 これが問題だ、だから米国の状況はゴムが
道路に当たるところだ 9:04 議会でのオンライン危害運動が本当に釘付けにするなら
9:10特にこの問題については、次のタバコとして扱われる可能性がある
9:16 でもオーストラリア政府は何も深刻なことをしていない つまり、ニュース交渉のメディアコードというのは、つまり
9:23 金額だ私たちが話しているお金の金額は危険です ああ、メタは7000万を支払わないことを選択しています
9:29もう私は700万 つまり、ジョシュ・フレデンバーグは建設されなかったクオンの駐車場にそれだけの金額を費やしたと思います
9:36それは、もし、もし、もしだったらあなたはニュースメディアの駆け引きの問題を解決しているの
9:41オーストラリアのジャーナリズムはあなたがきちんと責任を負ったらどうするだろうという暗号 私は責任者ではない、それが理由だ 9:46
安い席に座ってただ座ってるだけ常に意見してください、おい、それは安い席ではありません 正直に言うと、彼らは何をすべきですか9:52特に大臣に一例を挙げますが、9:59誰かがFacebookにお金を支払うたびに、すべての取引の収益に
デジタル税を課すのはどうですか10:05自分たちのイベントや自分たちの政治的見解を宣伝する
ためには、ご存知のとおり商業的活動である 10:10収入の 5% 程度を請求されるべきだが、これは物事の収益面に関わるものであり、10:17コンテンツを規制することはできない、だってマネージャーたち、正直に言ってほしいフェイスブックの奴らはアルゴリズムを理解していない10:24それは銀行システムのアルゴリズムに少し似ている10:29あれらの大量金融破壊兵器が爆発した、そしてあなたは知っている10:35金融の世界、そして私たちを世界金融危機にもたらしたこれらの 10:40 派生関数を作成していたエンジニアは、その中の数式が何なのかを知りませんでした。したがって、この種の10:49 私がクラウド資本と呼んだ資本のアルゴリズム資本、何と呼んでもいいが、それは私たちにとって深刻な脅威である
10:56社会、私たちの社会構造、私たちの経済、私たちの実効需要、私たちの課税ベース、そして行く
11:04私が今提案する非常に急進的な方向へ、オーストラリアで事業をしたいならFacebookに言うつもりです
11:11そうしなければならないでしょうあなたの株の一定割合をオーストラリア政府基金に預け、それによって
11:20Capital への利益とその企業内での議決権を獲得し、
11:26それが嫌なら、これがあるだけで何かを盗むことができます
11 :32小さな問題は、それは、鉱山会社がオーストラリア政府にしたのと同じように、フェイスブックがオーストラリア政府を破壊するだろうということです
11:37しかし、それは民主主義の可能性をほんの少しでも諦めるためのレシピです
11:44あなたが話している権力、信じられないほど強力な会社のことを話しているのです
から、政治はかけがえのないものです、それは技術的な解決策ではありませんね、私は11:50それが政府を破壊するだろうとあなたが言うことに興味があります、それが私です、もしそうするなら私はそうします
11:56私があの立場だったらそう答えるだろうし、だからどの政府であってもオーストラリア国民に対して
、彼らに抵抗するために政治的に民主的な、民主的な議論を組織する義務があるのは 12:08 でもジョー
12:08 彼らは彼らだと思う勝てません エド 勝てますか 私は言わなければなりません、私はええと、ご存知のとおり、多くの業界を見てきました
12:16彼らの行動は人々の支持を得ています、ええと、私は数年前に反政府勢力と戦ったことがありますガス部門
12:22彼らが請求していた価格 えー、押し上げられるのはこれくらいしかありません えー、でもこの国ではテクノロジーは違います
12:28そして私は、ほとんどの政治環境では、アメリカでのステファニーの指摘を理解していると思います えー、
12があります:他のセクターとはまったく異なるテクノロジーに関する何かをすることにさらに重点を置きます。 12:40
簡単な質問 ジョーはタバコという言葉を使いましたが、私はタバコをそのようなものだと考えていますか、と思いました
12:46 大きなタバコ、ああジョーはジョーに影響を与える多くのことを言っています12:51彼らは大のタバコが好きだ
、人間とは何か、家の親が何を心配しているのか考えてみると、こう言うけど、私は親ではない 12:57
でも、私が理解しているように、人々が心配していることはテクノロジー企業についての本題は
13:031 彼らは私たちの子供たちに何をしているのですか 特にボディイメージの点でご存知の通り
13:10 次世代への取り返しのつかない精神的ダメージ 2 ろくでなしどもは税金を払っていない彼らはどこで
収入を得ているのですか 13:15 ええと、それは簡単に修正できません、なぜなら他の国がその収入を望んでいるからです 戦いは
13:15です。21しかし、ここオーストラリアではインターネットを通じて行われた売上に課税することができます。
13:27そして、特に Facebook はそうですね、だって今オーストラリア人はあなたにお金を払っているのですから、あなたは私たちが払います、私たちはこれから損害賠償を支払うつもりです、それが私たちがやっている事です
13:33 彼らはお金を払っていないのです、彼らにはお金がないからです道徳の羅針盤はわかりました、それが私たちのいるところですオンライン世論調査のテーマに移ります
13:40オーストラリアの規制当局は大手テクノロジー企業の経済的および政治的権力を抑制するよう努めるべきだとあなたに尋ねます 13:45
メタのようなものを投げることができますQ&A Facebook と YouTube アカウント、または ABC newsx と
13:52Instagram アカウントで匿名でアノンに投票します。後で結果をお届けします。Facebook アカウントで
13:59 彼らのアカウントに投票できます。ああ、次はあの人たちについて真剣に考えるべきでした。」開始を聞きます、あなたが招待したものです
14:06中断ですので、実際にはできません。やじではなく中断を招待しますが、エドの次の質問はジェーンからです
14:13ラー、ありがとうパトリシア えー、こんばんは、私の質問はパネルです えー
14:19私はパートです人生の大部分をテクノロジーそのものなしで生きてきた、死につつある人々の中で、私は
若者たちをテクノロジーによる被害から守る責任を感じています
14:34テクノロジー企業によって引き起こされる危害から、私たちは批判的思考を促進する必要があると信じています スポーツ
14:40そして創造性 えー、学校制度と幅広い人々の中で えー、
あなたはこれに同意していただけますか 14:47あたりにあなたの提案をいくつか教えてください
14:53この危害を防ぐために必要な重要な行動 ありがとう、ジェーン、心配していますソーシャルが本質的に若者に与えている影響について
14:58 そうだね、あなたはどう思いますか、メディアが若者に何をしていると思いますか
15:04まあ、社会学者であり、8人の子供の親として、夫と私には20歳から30歳までの8人の子供がいます35 から
15:1118 私たちは、何らかの害をもたらす可能性があることをこの目で見てきました、それがドーパミンです
15:17 それは放出される可能性があります ご存知のように、若い人たちにとって、テクノロジーから抜け出すのは非常に難しいです 15:24
サイバーいじめええと、他の人々の間で競争している人々がいます
15:31 Facebook では、それがうつ病や不安症につながります、そして私たちは
15:38 さまざまな問題が私たちに実際に直面しており、私たちは社会として本当に強化する必要があります
15:43そして、私たちは若い人たちを本当に守らなければならないと言い、それが私たちが強く感じていることです
15:49夫と私、そして他の多くの人々がそれをパネルに持ち込んでいます ジャッキー、どうしてこれほど多くの問題にうまく対処し始めるのですか
15:55ストリート周辺のすべての学校は、朝一番に携帯電話をカバンの中に入れるように指導し始めることができます。
16:01 午後に子どもたちを連れ出すことは許されていなかった 私たちは皆、電話も持たずに学校を通っていました そうすれば子どもたちに 8 時間の十分な休みが与えられることはわかっていると思います
16:08 その日は良いスタートになるでしょう でも、あなたの言うとおり、依存症です世の中の意地悪な親たちはアルコールと薬物について書いている
16:14虐待と依存症について子供たちをハイテクに注意するのはどうするか教えてあげる、だって
16:20彼らは依存症になりつつある ああ、彼らは夜遅くまで起きている、学校に行かない、これは次の
16:26 依存症の世代、とても感謝しています。私はあなたと少し似ています、私の息子たちは少し年をとりました、彼らは寂しかったです
16:33 ああ、彼らが唯一使っているのは通話用の電話です16:39
私が聞いている恐ろしい話のいくつかは、彼らが経験していること、そしてそれは中毒です
16:45彼らを見ることができます、2、3日かかります、彼らはそうではありません彼らが麻薬やアルコールから抜け出すのを見るの
とは違う 冗談だよ 16:52違うよ 最近これ見たけど、ああ、これを見ているのはパフォーマンスだよ
16:58これがどれだけひどいことかわかるよ 彼らは麻薬と同じように壁に穴を開けてる17:03彼らの
両親はこれが依存症ですこれはテクノロジー依存症ですこれは本物ですこれがこの若者たちに与えていることです
17:09子供たちへそれが家族に確実に影響を与えている事例証拠を多くの人が持っていると思いますでも
17:16どうしますか、規制当局でどのように対処しますか、あるいは実際のレベルでそれを止めようとするのはわかりますか、つまり、それは次のような感じです
17:22それはその後の話です 両親がイライラした話 あなたはどうしますか それは主にだと思います
17:29テクノロジー企業自体はやっていないし、アルゴリズムがさまざまな国の子供たちにさまざまな種類のコンテンツを提供していることを知っているので、私たちが 17:29学校にもっとやらせることができるとしたら
、17:35私には 16- 1歳の娘なので私は
17:42彼女がどれくらい電話をしているか知っていますが、ありがたいことに彼女と
彼女の友達の何人かはその危険性を認識しており、それが一部の人にどのような影響を与えるかを知っていることも知っています彼らの友達の彼らは
17:55ポッドキャストを開始しました。私は彼女と他の2人の女の子が最近録画したエピソードの1つを見ました。そこで彼らは
18:01話しているエピソード全体がソーシャルメディアとソーシャルメディアのマイナス面についてだったので、うれしく思います彼らはそれについてお互いに話し合うでしょう
18:06 それはおそらく私たちが望んでいるほど頻繁には起こらないと思いますが、責任は私たちにあります 18:13瞬間
エド それは確かに、そしてジョーが言っている点を理解しています18 年のオンライン危害運動に関して以前に提起されたもの
:20米国 ええと、それは確かに私たちが焦点を当ててきたものでした、ええと私の同僚のミシェル・ローランドがそれを主導し始めています
18:26これらの問題についての対応策の策定に取り組んでいます。そうすれば、これらの企業の一部に責任を問うことができます。なぜなら、彼らはそうしているからです。
18:33特に、彼らが同様の方法でアルゴリズムを形成している場合には、責任を問われる必要があります。
18:38同様の人々を導いているのはステファニーが今言ったことについて、えー、今後予定されているコンテンツに関して、
18:45それは今も継続中ですが、他のプラットフォームでも同様に、たとえば YouTube で大きな問題が発生しました 18:52数年
前に、えー、そうしなければならなかったのですアルゴリズムがコンテンツを供給する方法に関して、それを真剣に受け止めるよう圧力をかけられました
18:59 それは本質的に過激主義的でした、そして私は同様の種類のことが起こるに違いないと思います
19:04 ソーシャルメディアでも同様ですあなたには説明責任があるということの一部を知っていますか
19:10そしてこの問題を解決してください 挑発的な質問ですが、ジョー、私たちは持っています
19:15正直に言うと、私たちは遅すぎます、そうです、遅すぎるように感じます
19:20あなたは取ろうとしましたティーンエイジャーからの電話、私は持っていない あなたの幸運を祈ります、ええ、いいえ
19:26魔神が瓶から出てきました、私たちはあなたの時代には戻れないということを現実的に考えなければなりません
19:31それがあなたであることを知っていますそれを扱わなければならないのに、あなたはどうするのがいいですか、彼らに課税して
ください いいえ、いいえ 19:37いいえ、税金はこの問題を解決するつもりはありません、いいえ、それは一つではありません、あなたにできることは一つだけです、ええと、学校の子供たち
19:45独自のアルゴリズムを作成することはできますか独自の原則と価値観に基づいて
19:50だから、Facebookの外に、大手テクノロジー企業の外に、独自のアルゴリズムコミュニティを作るべきだということはわかります
19:56そのアルゴリズムを持っている会社、つまり、アルゴリズム自体は問題ではなく、作成されたアルゴリズムです
20:01憎しみを生み出し、依存症を生み出すことが問題なので、それは
財産権の問題であり、アルゴリズムを誰が所有するのかということです20:07地元の図書館と地元の図書館を知っていたと想像してみてください
20:13地元の学校が「これはプロジェクトだ」と言っています私たちは自分たちの間で議論するための独自のアルゴリズムを作成します
20:19 そして、私たちが集団として合意した方法でトピックを選択し、強調表示します
20:25 それが正しいコミュニケーション方法であることに同意しましたが、パトリシアは私が懸念している別の次元をもたらすために
20:31 若者に関して人々は自律的なリベラルな個人の死
20:36ここ数年、私が大学で、また若者たちと話していて気付いたのは、
20:43グーグルで知っている人たちは皆、シリコンバレーの昔ながらの踊る大手テクノロジー企業を歌っているからだと考えてください。そこに行ってください、えーっと
20:50とても快適な建築物があります、えー、卓球台があります、それは
20時です。55若者にとって非常に魅力的であり、彼らは皆そこで仕事をしたいと考えています。なぜなら、これらは今のB型の仕事ではなく、良い仕事だからです。
21:03娘を見ていると、それが16時17分だったことがわかります、無意識のうちに彼女がいることがわかりました
21:11友達は、Tik Tokに何をアップロードしているかについて非常に心配していました
21:17スナップチャットやその他すべてのことを潜在意識で知っていたからです。彼らは就職面接に行く
21:25 ボットか、ボットに似た人物が、オンライン履歴をすべてチェックした後、21:30 面接に行く予定です。そのため、 21:37 仕事
の間に以前のように隔たりはありません。21:42就職面接中、私にとってそれは若者たちの将来についての不安を生み出す単なる機械であり、それは私たちが基本的に21年間を通して彼らを監視する
ことに取り組むべきことです。 22:02それが非常に重要なポイントであることにさえ気づかずに、彼らは一生をかけて自己検閲の状況に置かれ、エイデンからの質問でこの議論を続けていきます22:09新しいこれは、世代間の問題についての質問です考えを公平にしましょう22:14 私たちは、今よりも良い、あるいは同等の約束や機会を残せるということ 22:20 次の世代には、現在の経済システムの仕組みから根本的に脅威にさらされているように感じます 22:27特に私たちが財産と経済的インセンティブを設計した方法は22:33 パネルは同意する、もしそうなら何を変える必要があるのか ジョー・サイ うーん、そうですね、住宅というのは22:43 財産というのは難しい、とても難しい、そしてそれは魔神のテクノロジーに少し似ていますボトルがなくなっても私たちは22:49 平均収入の 3 倍の家にかかる時代には戻らない22:54 それで、あなたの目的がシドニーかメルボルンに家を所有することなら23:00 そしてあなたはお父さんとお母さんの銀行にアクセスできない あなたはめちゃくちゃで、23:06そして私はあなたの目的を変えるでしょう、それは残念ですが、これもまた同じように、私たちはふりをすることができます23:11政府は努力し続けるふりをし続けるでしょうそれを変えたいけど、実際に住宅価格の下落を望んでいる政府はない えー、それはかなり問題になるだろう23:18 家を持っているすべての有権者にとって えー、彼らのために 家を持っているすべての有権者にとって、だから、それは23 だということだ。 26本当の悲劇 ええと、公平性のインセンティブという観点から考えると、ええとこの国は23:34税金を大幅に上回るのです パネルに二人の経済学者がいる前でこんなことを言うなんて、もう信じられませんが、23: 39 税金を大幅に上回っています えー、賃金、ええと、税金を減らそう、資産、そして23:46 収入と資産、そしてそのステージ全体を通してあなたは聞いていました 街頭減税には多くの階級ベースの言葉がありました
23:52金持ちのための減税だったけど、真実はバージニア州だということだ23:57金持ちは本当の金持ちだし、年収20万ドルや30万ドルの人が金持ちに見える理由もわかるよ24:04年収4万ドルの
人には金持ちに見えるのはわかる
でも真実は、この国の本当の金持ちは、ああ
24:10 給料のために働いていない、彼らは 24:15
資産の評価額の上昇と、その資産が生み出す収入の2 つの方法で収入を得ているということですそして、それらの所得には、
賃金をもらって働いている労働者よりもはるかに低い税率で課税されます。これは
オーストラリアの税制の構造的な問題だと私は思います。残念ながら、悪いニュースは、政府はそんなことはしないということです真剣に
24:34それを変えてみてください、それは選挙で負ける素晴らしい方法だから、それは遺書です、あなたの選挙への影響ではないでしょうか
24:41チャンピオン、ジャッキー・ランビー、ああ、あなたは首相に立候補するつもりはありません、あなたは
24です： 47クロスベンチャーだから、もう少し余裕があるよ、ああ、早い時間だPK、ちょっと早めに、
今夜ここで24時54分に首相に立候補するという野望を宣言してもらえますか、大胆になって、税金の変更を検討する必要がありますか
25時00分、手配が必要です税金の取り決めについて何かをすること それについては疑いの余地はありませんが、私たちもまた、
上下の取り決めについて何かをする必要があります、そしてここですぐに説明します、ええと公務員、上級公務員がいます
25:12そこ25:18それを解決する方法を教えてください、そして、ああ、長官たち、私たちの国防軍は首相の二倍の収入を得ているのですが、
25:18それを解決する方法を教えてください。
25:24 副首相たちは自分たちに給料を上げろ、職員たちがああーと叫んでいる間、彼らがやっているのはそういうことだ
25:30 給料を自分たちに上げろ、それが私たちが注目していることだと知っている、それから私たちはこの子供たちと一緒にここに降り立った、この子供たち
25: 36むかしむかし、今はスポーツをする余裕があったのに、25:42あなたが見ているスポーツをするのに、 CRAの11歳の女の子が20試合25:50
サッカーをするのにお金を払っていたと聞いたのは750ドルだったと思います。
25:56それは、州を代表するものがないので、より高価ですむかしむかし、26:02次
のいずれかを持っていれば、中小企業に行くことができました
州と中小企業を代表するあなたの子供たちが、100ドルか50ドルの少額の寄付をしてくれるでしょう
26:07中小企業にもそんな余裕はないので、ここに大きな問題があると私は信じています特に小学校では
26:14小学校ではスポーツをするべきではないし、州政府もそれを取り上げるべきだけど、ここで優先順位を決めましょう
26:21ここのトップは、仕事を果たせていない副首相を見ていると、
26:27子供たちを大学に戻すことができず、自分たちに給料を上げているのは私には問題がある、だからあなたは賃金
に問題がある 26:32私は不平等に問題がある、ジョーがそれを乗り越えた点、それが本当の資産だから彼らは
お金を稼いでいる 26:39 それを子供たちに与えると 彼らはお金を稼ぎ続ける それは世代間で正しいことだ 26:45 それが
話だ 一方、賃金労働者は高いかもしれない でもそれだけだ そうそう、だから
26:52 でもあなたが言ったように、それはそうだたとえば、あなたが金持ちでない限り、あなたが金持ちの家族の出身でない限り、それらの資産は分割されていません正直に言いましょう
26:59あなたに、私たちは確かにそれを持っていません、私たちはタスマニアのシドニーとメルボルンではありませんそこには金持ちの親は多くない、彼らはなんとか生き延びている
27:05彼らは自分たちのお金を介護につぎ込んでいるので、安心して仕事を終えることができる、子供たちに残せるものはあまりない、だから
27:10私たちは問題を抱えている私たちは住宅問題を抱えていますが、あなたが言ったように、完全に制御不能です、私たちはそれから制御不能になりました、そして私たちはそれについて何かをしなければなりません
、そして私たちはこれらの家をどこにどのように建てるかについてまだ議論しています。エドはどこにいるの、
根本的な再構築の話し合いが必要ですか 27:23あなたが今夜新しい税制のようなものを宣言するつもりはないのはわかっていますが、あなたは
27:30それはあると思いますか、そうしましょう、でも私は私は現実に生きています
27:37この世代間の問題に対処するために、私たちはちょうどここ数か月の間にかなり大きな税制変更を経験したばかりです
27:44ええと、ステージの再構築という点でかなりの批判を集めました
27:493 それが私たちがこれまでやってきたことに加えて、えー、多国籍税改革と退職年金改革についても、えー、それで私は
27:58 私たちが話し、そのすべてを乗り越えていく中で、あなたが知っていることはたくさんあると思います28:05
世代の側だけど、エイデンのあの指摘に言及しただけで深刻な問題だ つまり、我々は短期と
28:11長期の両方の解決策を検討しているということだ ええと、多くの人が同じ賃金に行き詰まっていると感じているあまりにも長い間、
28:17彼らの賃金が動くのを一度も見たことがなかったし、実際、私たちは政府がもっと良くなりたいと言っていたのに、賃金は今では
28:24彼らが約束した4年間よりもはるかに良く成長している、でもまあ、彼らの現状と比べてみると28歳のときと比べて
：31 より良くすることはいつでもできる
28:37賃金は改善されるだろうと主張した保守派政府は、それについて何もしなかったし、実際には何も変わらなかった、そして
28:43私たちも、先ほど述べた税制の取り決めを通じて、他の変化も確実に加えたいと思った 大きな問題は住宅に行くことだと思う
28:50そうですね、それは複雑で、ジョーの意見を受け入れます。28: 55
価格が下がり始めると、大勢の人が集まることになるからです。彼らはそれについて神経質になりますが、もう一つ重要なことがあるのです。手頃な価格に対処するのは、
29:02実際に家の数を増やすことです。西シドニーの私の地域では、ええと、ますます増え
ているようです。29:09人々は都市に移動できなくなり、ええと、彼らはさらに遠くに引っ越していますさらに西に行くと、シドニーの端が
動き続けているのが見えました 29:15 住宅の手頃な価格の問題に対処しようとしています
29:20住宅に関して言えば、世代間格差に関するあなたの指摘の大きな要因の 29:20
の1 つだからです
29:33家を世代から次の世代に引き継ぐ人もいるけど、私は西シドニー出身です。私は有力者ではないので、III
29:38必然的にそんなことはわかりません29:46私が育った世界の住宅価格を見ると、実際に
そのようなことは起こりますが、本当に心配になります。29:46私が育った世界では、その価格がどのように推移したか知っています。そして、私たちはそれを変える必要があります。そして、
29 :52私たちは、住宅の手頃な価格という点と、住宅購入者が実際に最初の住宅を購入できるよう支援することの両方を目指しています。 29:58住宅エイデンは需要側です。これについてあなたが懸念していることは何ですか。 30:05不動産市場
に参入できるでしょうか。
私にとっては、はい、私たちはずっとやってきました
30:10幸運です、私と私のパートナー、ええと、安定した高収入の仕事に就くことができてとても幸運だと思います、ええと
30:16でも、私の友達、同僚、他の若いオーストラリア人、他の若いオーストラリア人を見るとわかるでしょう30:23私たちの
窮状を痛感しているのはわかっていますが、ルールが現状のままだとは思いません えー、ご存知ですか
30:29 長期的な問題を解決するために行きましょう このシステムが持続可能だとは思えませんし、何かをしなければならないと思います30:35ポイントそう
だ、優先順位を付けるべきものは何か、それには勇気ある政府が必要だ、知ってるか
30:40あなた方若者は、石油資源使用税から得られる税金よりも多くの税金を払っている
30:46この国で最も評価の高い資源をいくつか持っているし、
30:52若い人たちからは私たちが得ている以上の税金をもらっている 鉱業と石油資源の使用料、結局はそれが問題になる
30:57優先順位、それは、次回彼から政治献金を受け取れないことをよく知っている勇気を持って降りてくる、そしてそれが
優先順位です、そしてそれは私たちの若者と新しい人たちのことであるべきです国民が第一に考えられていない、それが結局のところ、それが真実なのです
31:11この件はハウスプライズが残念に思うだろうから付け加えてもいいですか
31:16よく言ったよく言った、ジャッキー、ああ、ノルウェーは石油産業に税金を課している
31:25大学教育を無料にし、公営住宅に補助金を出してください オーストラリアは全く逆のことをしています
31:32それは政府としてのあなたの責任です そう、そしてこの問題に関して今日あなたから聞いたことはすべて
31:38警察の責任です資源産業に課税する責任はもうやめてほしいと知らせるために
31:46hex はドーキンス改革のもとでのアルプスによるひどい改革でした、それはそれです
31:52大学にとっては大惨事で、大学教育の質は低下しましたが、結果的に建物は
31:58 副首相は不動産開発者になるために百万ドルもらっているからずっといいのに
32:06 大学教育の水準はあなたが話していた公営住宅が激減している
32:11 住宅の供給を増やしてください 絶対に何をしているのですかそれは自然に増えるわけではないということ
32:17 あなたは公営住宅を建設する必要があります、私たちはそしてあなたはそれをやっていません いいえ、いいえ
32:22 まあ、私たちはそれをしていないとあなたは言うことができます、そしてそれは人生を送るのに問題ありません 事実は3つですあなたはやっているけど、本当のことはそれがまさに私たちがうまくやるべきことなのです
32:29私たちは新しい政府としてスタートしたばかりです II 終わったと言いますが、そんなことは起こっていません
32:36それはそうなのですが、それだけでは十分ではありませんあなたが何を主張しているのか、それともあなたはそれをしていないのですか、はい、それでは、どこからお金を手に入れるつもりですか
32:42あなたはリソースに税金をかけているわけではないので、分かった、お金に行きましょう、なぜならステファニー、あなたはそうだからですお金のことはすべて、そしてええと
32:49 あなたは私は MI のことばかりです あなたの現代貨幣理論に行きたいのですが、
それが何を意味するのか教えてください 32:54 エレベーターでそれが何を意味するのか教えてください
オーストラリア政府、日本政府、
33:06政府、英国政府、米国政府、カナダ政府などの通貨発行政府の能力について正直になり、
33:13自国の通貨で運営されている国は、独自の通貨を発行する 予算を運用できないし運用でき
ない
33:27お金を見つけてください。あたかも私たちがまだ金本位制で運営されていると思っているようで、
33:32お金を使うためには誰かが地面に穴を掘って金を引き出さなければなりません、それは問題だけです33:38さらに借金が増えるのは
問題だ 33:38インフレ それは問題ないけど、今のところ借金については何も言っていない 33:44
お金がどこから来るのかについて、同じように率直に会話しようとしているだけだから、現代ではそれを理解しましょう
33:51オーストラリア政府がもっと支出したいと判断したとき、指示は準備銀行に送られ、政府が支出できる唯一の方法
は 33:57準備銀行が預金額を増やすために銀行口座の数字を変更することだ34:04
お金が作成される それが機能する他の方法があるわけではありません これが機能する唯一の方法は政府です
34:09政府は使いたいと言っています 準備銀行が政府に代わって支払いを実行し、それを使用します34:15
コンピューターのキーボードが銀行口座の数字を変えるだけで、新しいお金が生まれるだけで、私たちはみんな深呼吸できる
34:21政府はお金がなくなることはないが、買うものがなくなる可能性があることを知っているからinfl が問題だ
34:27 破産しないこと、国が破産しないことを心配しなければならない 国民向けクレジットカードはない
34:33 大人の会話が必要
34:40 ケルトンインフレは私たちが心配する必要があることだと今言いました、そしてより多くの紙幣を印刷するとインフレが起こります、いいえ、それはよくありません、それでは私は間違っています、うーん
34:48まあ確かに私たちはそうだから、つまり、印刷せずにPRをしないで支出する可能性があるということです
34:55 他にうまくいく方法はないので、政府が支出する方法は 1 つしかないと説明しましたが、政府はできるでしょうか
35:01 支出が多すぎるのは、もちろんです、経済全体で支出が多すぎる可能性があります、経済はそうではありません
おそらくそのすべての需要に対応するだけの生産能力はなく、価格の上昇は確実ですが、政府
がお金を印刷している、米国がお金を印刷していると人々が言う中で、コロナウイルスが流行するまでの 35:14 10 年間のうち、私たちはより良い時期を過ごしたことを知っています。
35:20日本はお金を印刷していた イギリスはお金を印刷していた 誰もがお金を印刷していた そしてインフレは10
年間なかった 35:25 アメリカでは10年間 ユーロ圏全体で10年間 日本では
30年間 35:30印刷、印刷、印刷、それを示すインフレはなかったインフレが最終的に現れたのは、誰かが
35:37紙幣を印刷したからではなく、新型コロナウイルスが出現してサプライチェーンを破壊したためであり、その後の35:42インフレは、
特に15年間ヨーロッパとアメリカへの投資がゼロだった後に与えられた自然な結果でした。
35:48米国への投資は非常に少ないため、ずっと投資していなかったために供給が制限されていましたが、インフレの100 100%は
35:55供給側ではなく、少なくとも米国のコンテストの文脈でこれを見た人全員でしたでもECBを見てください
36:02解剖を行った人々を見て、遡って実際に詳細な分析をして、このインフレはどこから来たのかと言っています
36:08過去3年ほどの間に私たちが経験したことはそれは供給側から来た それは
生産のボトルネックから来ました そしてその後、ウクライナとロシアでの戦争から来ました それはエネルギーと食料から来ました
36:20価格はサンフランシスコ連邦準備理事会をほとんど見ていません ムーディーズ・アナリティクスを見てください やった人は誰でも
36:26これらのことは ECB が教えてくれるでしょう、私たちは価格つり上げについてさえ話していません
36:33彼らはインフレ環境を利用して価格を引き上げたので、一部はそこから来ましたが、これらの人々のインフレはほとんどありませんでした
36: 40実際に仕事をして説明しようとした人は、政府が単に支出しただけだと言うだろう
の3分の1から半分の間だと述べた
:52オーストラリアでのインフレの発生は、経済学者としてではなく、需要側にあったのですが、これらの
モデルを必ず調べておいてください。36:58モデルは少しソーセージに似ています。中に何が入っているか知っているなら、触りたくないでしょう。
37:08この大きな問題についてのエドのヒュージックを知ってください、それがまだうまく機能する前にそれを使用してください37:15それはかなり良いですが、インフレ価格の押し上げについてです つまり、政府はそれが 37:22実際にその多くはどこから来ているのか
を主張しています
供給側もそうですよね、ああ、
確かにその要素はありました、すぐに 37:28ポストコ 確かにそれはありました、ええと私たちも調べて懸念していました、そして
37:35再び私は自分のコミュニティで人々がスーパーマーケットに行くときにそれを見ました37:41彼らがバスケットに入っているもの
と、以前は同じ金額で手に入れることができたものを買い物しているのです。だからこそ、私たちは
集中力を高める必要があると言い、ACに調べてもらいましたたとえば、あちら側で何が起こっているのか、それが直接影響を与える
37:54街路にいる人たちに、いわば、そういう領域があるのですが、あなたにとっては難しいことだと思います
38:00ステファニーの言っていることに感謝します 問題だと思います38:06世界中の政府が
インフレがどのような状況にあるのか懸念していることは理解していると思いますが、インフレの一部は緩和されつつあり、十分な速度で進んでいないことは知っています
38:13 ええと、ここでは安定してきているのが見えています ええと、問題は実際にその戦いが終わるのを確認することです ええと、そして
インフレが下がってくるのを見てください 38:21 シャン・ナゲシュを迎え入れたいと思います
38:27 ええと、パトリシア、ありがとう聖なる月ラマダンが進行中で、
38:32断食の祈りをし、イスラム共同体のために団結する時期ですが、これはアルバネシ氏が述べたように適切な時期であり
、おそらく政府が国連への資金提供を再開する最良の機会ではないでしょうか
38:46はいそれで、アンラ、それはパレスチナ人支援機関です、エド、あなたから始めましょうか
38:52それはそうですね、ここで最前線で中心にならなければならない最大のことはそれです
38:58それは、あそこの子供たちはガザの人々に食糧がなくて飢えているということです
39 :05薬 えー、そして、その結果、さらに えー、人命が失われる懸念があります
39:11イスラエルの軍事作戦 えー、ガザでの えー、我々は一時停止を受けています
39:17資金提供は停止されています 我々は懸命に働いており、資金調達を確認する必要があります再開してください えー、できるだけ早く えー、アンラは
人道援助を提供するだけではありません 39:25 人道援助を提供するのはガザの地域社会の機能に責任があります39:31 ガザへの援助を一時停止するか、あるいは39:38 ガザがイスラエルの軍事作戦を見ているのを
見守るかの決定が下されているのはご存知でしょう39:44
死者は推定 31,000 人以上、負傷者は 73,000 人近くです ええと、これはええと、私たちはやります 39:53 これをできるだけ早く復元する必要があります。 40:00調査を行って彼らの意見を確認する必要があるが、40:05政府が他の選択肢を検討しているため、それはできるだけ早く行われる必要がある、ちょうど今日の午後に強行措置がある、あなたもいくつかのニュースを見たことがあると思います人々40:11ええと、イスラエルのロビー団体の何人かは、資金が浮動援助に使われることを望んでいると言っています40:20ええと、彼らが米国について説明した基地の仲間は、それが適切だと思います40:26イスラエルが実際に人道援助の実施を許可しているということは、それが議論されていないことです40:33彼らはこれを適切に実現する必要があるのに、なぜ彼らはそれをしないのですか、そこにはあります40:39前例のない危機は、そこでは起こっていて、生死を分ける決断がイスラエルによって下されており 40:44それに対処する必要があり、より多くの人道援助が必要です、そしてそれは40:50私たちがガザに焦点を当てている間だけではなく、ええと、ガザでもありますヨルダン川西岸の人々40:56 仕事や収入の面で妨げられている ああ、彼らはそのことで経済的に不自由になっている
41:01その部分は、人々が現金や暖房を物乞いしているところについてはまだ考えられていません
41:08冬が続く中、それも見逃されている別の問題だと思います、そして改善する必要があります
41 :14認識され、対処されているので、人道援助という点ではイスラエルに責任があると思っているのでしょうが、
41:21人間の国際社会の多くは、これに対処する必要があると言っています、無実の民間人が
代償を払うべきではなく、 41:27彼らは援助をもっと早く流すことができるはずだし、
41:33米国がその浮遊物について話し合う段階に到達しなければならなかったという事実は、あの浮遊仲間が、ええと、私が
多くの点で彼の反逆者たちを考えていることを示しています拒否したのは、私が絶対に合理的であるだけでなく重要であると信じていることに耳を傾けることを拒否した
41:48人々に必要な援助を得るよう呼びかけているので、イスラエルが耳を傾けない場合は制裁と影響に直面する必要がある
41:54よく分かると思う入ってください、あなたはそれが公開の議論に入っているのがわかります
42:00ますますそのような会話を始める必要があると思いますかそれは浮いているのは私次第ではありません、知っています
か 42:07そういう種類の議論は私にとって重要です確かに言えるのは、イスラエルが別の立場をとるのを見る必要があるということです。
42:14 人道援助の流れに関して言えば、少なくとも皆さんはご存知のとおり、その
援助がより困難な状況を経て実現する可能性のある7つの異なる点があります。ええと、それは改善する必要があります、ヤニス
42:27死亡者数が増加したため、オーストラリア政府はここ数ヶ月で方針を大きく変えました
42:33ニュージーランドとカナダと共同協定に署名しました ええと、例えば
42:38イスラエルに次のようなことをしないよう呼びかけていますレアで地上攻撃に入る
42:43世界の対応に大きな変化があったのではないか NOP 少なすぎる 遅すぎる
42:50y ガザの飢えた子供たちは飢えていない、飢えている
42:59意図的に、イスラエルがガザの住民を餓死させるのは、巻き添え
被害ではない 43:05 これは意図的な政策だ 戦争だ 彼らは、エイズが
解決しない理由は 43:12 そうだと主張するだろう彼らが主張しているのですが、それに対するあなたの反応は何ですか
43:19政策があるというのは明らかに真実ではありません、あなたに必要なのは
イスラエルのテレビを聞いてイスラエルの閣僚の話を聞くことだけです 43:31
それは明らかです彼らは
、ハマスが武器を放棄するまで、人口の半分を43:37服従させるために人口を飢えさせる手段として援助を受け入れない
43:44この資金提供を拒否してエジプトに行きなさい
43:51国連は、ガザに実際に援助を持ち込める唯一の援助機関です
43:56だって、ガザの海岸に援助を持ち込むことはできるけど、どうやって分配するのでしょう唯一の機関はそこだけで、
44:03それに対する資金の打ち切りを否定しているのは、あなたの政府が根拠に基づいてやったことです
44:08うん、それは資金を打ち切っているのは、子供たちが飢え死にしている人がいるのに、
44:13あなたは立ち止まって、飢餓の改善のための資金を打ち切っているのです。あの子供たちと
44:19したがって、オーストラリア人のあなた方、私の見方では、オーストラリアのイメージはこのことによって取り返しのつかないほど傷つき、今では
44:27イスラエル国防軍が食料を持ち込めない組織に再び資金を提供し始めている
44: 34彼らはそれを持ち込んでいるのではなく、アメリカ人に持ち込ませさえしていないのです、今こそボイコットする時です
44:40イスラエルからの制裁と撤退をボイコットする時です、そして私たちはイスラエルで窒息死している進歩的なイスラエル人に代わってそれを行う必要があります
44:47彼らは全世界が
イスラエルを戦争犯罪の根源として見ているのがわかっているから話す
のです44:55イスラエルの進歩主義者や人道主義者たちが国を離れるからといって逃亡を続けないようにする必要があります。
45:08イスラエルを住めない国にするゼロロットとアラ・シオニストの国よ
45:14ジャッキー・ランビ この危機が始まった時、あなたは議会で力強い演説をしました
45:22多くの国民としてハマスの攻撃について非常に懸念していましたこの紛争が始まって5か月が経ちました、そしてそうあるべきです
45:28感想はありますか？イスラエルは行き過ぎだと思いますか ああ、イスラエルは多くの人々を困らせ始めていると思います 彼らは
45:34まさにライン上に座っています彼らがそれを超えていないなら、あなたはそれを越えると思いますか、ええと、私は
45:40彼らはその線上にいます、これはあまりにも長い間続いていると思います、問題は、あなたにはテロリストとテロリストがいるということです奴らは野郎だ
45:46テロリストがいる場所ならどこでもそうする他の方法はないだろう ええとええと
45:52ええと、あなたの国全体で不安定化するでしょう あなたがグループを持っているとき、彼らの大きなグループがいるとき、それは私にとって初めてのことですでも、私の
45:582 番目のポイントは、これです。私たちはそこに国連と呼ばれるものがあります、わかりました、私たちは
そこに青い帽子をかぶった兵士をいます 46:09イスラエルが彼らのうちの一人を排除するのを見たいです
46:09地上で食料を配っているのに、なぜ
46時16分に平和維持軍をあそこに配置することについて話さないのですか、これらの検問所に参加していない中立国は、この食料が確実に届けられるようにするのは大丈夫です。
46:22配達されるのになぜやらないの、誰もこのことについて話さないし、私も
46:28なぜやらないのか理由がわからない、彼らは何ヶ月も持たない、あそこの子供たちも、あの子たちも
46:34大人全員あるいはあのガザ地区にいる誰かが明日それをしなければならない
46:40あの青い帽子をあのガザ地区に持ち込むことについて国連が話し合っているのを見たい
46:45血まみれのイスラエルがそのうちの1つを奪おうとするのを見たいんだアウトオーケー、ジョー・バイデンはこのまま再びVするだろう
46:51最初から人道的方向に向かうあらゆる動きに反対してきた、それは
46:57アメリカは拒否権を発動し、残りの西側諸国をうまく引きずり込んでいる、残りの西側諸国は支持する必要がある
47 47:10つまり、これ
は私の専門分野の範囲を超えていますが、
47:15確かに実行可能なオプションのように思えます、これは絶対です人道主義者
47:21 過ぎ去る災害は、L の新たな一日であり、私が意味するのは
47:27 疑いの余地はありませんが、これに緊急に行動する必要があるということです
47:33 これを終わらせるには、今夜十分に時間がかかります、彼はゴードンです
47:41夕方、みなさん、えー、私の質問は、えー、アメリカについてです
47:47選挙 えー、今年の非常に現代的なことはトランプ支持率が低いことです
47:54描写されているよりも、共和党支持者で投票しない人たちが大勢いるのですか
48:00トランプに投票しない中絶に関する変更は民主主義への攻撃であるなどの理由で
48:05 1月6日のウクライナとその他のふざけたブロックは、
ステファニーを公職から締め出すのに十分な大きさですか 48:11ステファニー、共和党員もいるのですね
48:18彼らは決してトランパーと呼んでいます彼らは一度彼に投票し、二度と投票しないと誓った
48:25ドナルド・トランプの代わりにRFKジュニアに注目している人もいる うーん、私はそう思う
48:31女性の場合は、もしかしたらもっと強いものがあるかもしれない
48 :37 ドナルド・トランプの訴えを過小評価しても過大評価しても、中絶問題は本当に女性の共感を呼んでいる
48:44 共和党員の女性も含めて、私はその何人かを知っているし、この問題が彼女たちをジョー・バイデン陣営に押し込んでいる何人かを知っている
48:52 だから結局のところ、私たちの政治システムは選挙人団と私が非常に複雑であることはご存知でしょう
49:00 つまり、これは実際には二者択一のレースではなく、実際には、ああ、この第三党の候補者です
49:05 ああ、RFK Jr は 20 の間のどこかで投票しています30%は見る世論調査次第だから何でも起こり得る
49:14本当にそれは主にRFK Jrが何票獲得するかによると思う
49:トランプ対バイデンと選挙人団の仕組みから20を導き出し、少数の激戦州9つを獲得した
49:28私が見た前回の世論調査では、本当に重要な激動州だけど、ドナルド・トランプが9票のうち8票でリードしていたんだけど、何
かある？49:36あのドナルド・トランプが次の選挙で勝つか本当に心配してる、ああ、そうだね
49:42もちろん、どれだけ心配してるんだ、すごく心配してる、そしてジョー・バイデンが彼と対戦するのに適任だと思いますか、そうですね、
彼は私たちの候補者です I 49:49つまり、彼は彼と対戦する候補者です 彼は彼に勝つことができると思いますか III
49:55彼は彼に勝つことができると思います、しかし、またそれが来ます3人の有力候補者と
選挙人団の間の奇妙な相互作用に至るまで 50:02 これらの鍵でどのように票を獲得するか、それは選挙区に帰着する つまりヒラリー
50:08 クリントンは83,000票の差で負けた それは僅差だ、そしてそれは
50:14誰が最も賢いのかを知る 投票チームを出して選挙区を動かし、最後の瞬間に票
がどのように積み重なるかを把握する 50:20あなたはアメリカに住んでいて何をする
50:26何をするのかこの 3 番目の候補のビジネスについて考えますか? 私はカリフォルニアに住んでいました。米国には住んでいません
でした。
50:40rfk のキャンペーンについては十分な情報があったけど、それはかなり明白だ 50:46
それは、若い民主党候補なら
50:52とても良いアイデアだった だって、もしそうなら、トランプはあんなに強い立場にないと思うから
50:57もし民主党にその準備ができていて、バイデン大統領が
この国にとって正しい決断を下すことができていたら
51:03 ヤニス 彼は完全に 51:09 未定だと思う 予測するのは不可能だ そして時には、あなたに告白できることが重要だ私たちは知りません
51:15 実際には知らないと言ったほうが良いでしょう 未来を予測することはできないの
です
51:30トランプが中絶のせいで共和党員を失った これには満足していない
51:36単に観察結果として述べているだけだけど、興味深いと思うのは
51:43一方で、これらの問題を考慮すると、ジョー・バイデンは、
51:49 ああ、中絶に関するトランプの女性蔑視に焦点を当てており、 51:57 これらの文化問題は、白人も黒人も労働者階級の人々がわずかな
収入しか持っていないという壊滅的な現実を議論しないために文明人にとって不可欠なものであり、52:09富がゼロであり、それが同時に多くの不満を生む52:14トランプは、バイデンが52歳であるためにできない方法でこれらの人々に話しかけている：20 ウォール街に近い エリート層に非常に近いため、トランプ氏は演説が上手である
52:27彼らは票を奪うためではなく、かつてホワイトハウスに入ったら同じことをしたのです
52:33前回彼がすべてをウォール街に寄付し、超金持ちに猫に税金を課したのと同じことを私はそれが
米国の難問だと思いますそして、オーストラリアで義務投票があることを私たちは皆、とても喜ぶべきだと思います。なぜなら、少なくとも、
52:44全員が投票することを知っているからです。一方、米国では、誰がより高い確率で棄権するかが問題であるからです
。52:51わかった、私たちはいつもこの番組での強制投票にとても満足しているから、拍手を送り
ましょう 52:59ええ、正直に言うと、それは私たちに良い瞬間を与えてくれるようなもので、オンライン投票の結果をお届けできます
53:05今、私たちはオーストラリアの規制当局がメサのような大手テクノロジー企業の経済的および政治的権力を抑制しようとすべきだと尋ねました 53:13 のうち 3,300 件以上が回答しました
投票方法は次のとおりです 84% が賛成、9% がいいえ、7% がわからない
53:19 私はそう思いませんこれは圧倒的な数字です 次にライアン・ヤングから聞きます
53:25 こんにちは、ドイツとイタリア製の製品を販売するバスルームと配管用品の小売店の者です これらの製品は
53:33 これらの製品の製造に関連する賃金労働組合とコストが似ている国で作られていますでは、なぜ
53:41 貴重な資源を地面から掘り出して富を築いてきた国に、
53:48 これらと比べて国産製品の方が消費者への輸送費が安いことを考えれば、 53:54 同じ製品をここで作る能力は
ないのでしょうか？ヨーロッパのような国で作られています とても興味深い質問です あなたは大臣です
54:00 業界にとって それがパンデミックからの脱却にどれほど大きな焦点を当てているかということです そして私たちは
今夜の番組の 54:07コースを通してそれについて話しました私たちが最も必要としていたものが、必要なときにそこになかったのはご存知のとおり、それは
54:13 非常に重要な教訓でした 54:13 私たちにとって、サプライチェーンと
54:19 地政学の影響、それが運営される方法、そして明らかにもう 1 つの大きな課題でした私たちの時代は気候変動であり、排出削減の必要性
54:24 オーストラリアの産業を動員してそれに参加させることができると思います。だからこそ私たちは、えー
54:31 特に、自国が生み出すものを確実に作る国であることを確認することに注力しています。
54:36これらの重要な分野で必要な製品だけをすべて行うことはできませんが、私たちが持っている主要な分野に集中していきます
54:43私たちが持っているものに関して、私たちと同じように付加価値を高めるためにもっとできるようにならなければなりません資源に関しては、私たちは
地球上で 54:49 の最大の重要な鉱物を蓄えていますが、それにもかかわらず、価値に関して追加のステップを実際には行っていません。
54:56彼らは、医学全般、そして明らかにエネルギーと排出ガス、そして新たな能力についても同様です
55:03この国には賢い人たちがたくさんいますが、何らかの理由で彼らはそうではないと感じています
55:09彼らはそうではないと感じています支援や関心を得て、私たちの海岸を離れて、彼らが他の場所でやりたいことを追いかけるために、
55:15から私たちの観点から、私たちがものを作る国になることができるようにするために、私たちはテクノロジーのエッジを磨き、
55:22を通して私たちが本当に創造するものを作ります良い、安全で長期的な仕事、そして高収入の仕事、それが私たちにとって大きな焦点だ
55:30それは簡単に解決できるだろうか
55:38 製造業をめぐる世界的な変化、そして製造業そのものの性質という点で、私たちは大きな変化を経験してきました
55:44 ええと、それは私も重要なことだと思いますし、確かに私たちの政府も、長期的に行うべき重要なことだと考えています
55: 50必要なときに自社の製品を手に入れることができるかどうかという点で、あなたが求めている
のはまさにそのようなことです。えっと、非常に簡単な質問があると思います。55:57簡単な質問です。申し訳ありませんが、もしあなたがドイツの製造業者、あなたは非常に巨大な
56:04 ヨーロッパ大陸全体との貿易開放性を持っています。あなたが話しているのは 4 億世帯のことです。私はおそらくおそらく
56:11 ここで譲るか、あなたには 1,500 万世帯の潜在的な顧客がいます。
56:18の規模のメリットは、私たちには太刀打ちできないということです それはとても簡単です そして今 II だからこそ、広いオーストラリアが非常に良いアイデアである理由です えー、
56:25 問題は住宅について話すときです えー、人口が増え続けているので
56:31住宅供給に追いつけず、それが資産価格を押し上げるので、非常に複雑だけど、つまり
56:37インフラ面で追いついているオーストラリアはたくさんあるのですが、それは可能ですか？それは
56:45 ビットです、トランプが選挙に勝てるかどうかのようなものです 未来を予測したくはありませんが、私は確かに
56:51 我々が本当に積極的に成長し続ければ、オーストラリア経済にとって大きなメリットが得られると思います
56:57ジャッキー
57:02人口が多い、うーん、今は大きな人口を処理できるとは思えない それは
57:07確かにタズにはもっと人を連れて行ってください、私たちのオーストラリアには家がありません57:15路上にはたくさんのホームレスがいるから、
他のスターリアンに「はい、私たちはもっともっと尋ねるべきだ」と言うのは非常に不公平です
57:21すでにここにあるものを収容できないときに人々がここに来てください、それはくだらないことだと思いますが、私はあなたが言っていたことについても言います、ええ、作ります 57:28
オーストラリアがまた作ります、それは素晴らしいでしょう、私は少し持っていなければならなかったのは知っていますか？オーストラリアをまた作るよ、そうだ、そうしなければならなかった 今日は少しくすくす笑わなければならなかった
57:34あなたの関税について、ええと、3,000万ドルを得ることができることはわかっていますね、なぜなら明らかにあなたの私だから
57:42思うそれはあなたの宝物でした 箸について話していて、とても面白かったので、Coからは何も学んでいません、どうやら
この国では箸を作ることさえできないようです 57:49箸も輸入しているのですか、歯ブラシも歯ブラシです ステファニー
57:56ごめんなさい非常に急いで飛び込んでもいいですか、
ええと、58:02特に私たちがしなければならないことのような複雑な男、たとえば、それが箸のどちらかを選択するかどうか知っていると思いますが、
58:07たとえば次のワクチンか次のことについて言います58:13それはガンを治すとか、次のことをするけど、私たちは
58:13その卵をもっとそのカゴに入れるべきだ、それが私たちがやろうとしていること、まさにそのような種類の価値あることをやろうとしているのですが、それは
必ずしも簡単にできるわけではありません私たちはジョーイが正しいことを知っています、私たちは人口だけに頼ることはできませんが現実です
58:27私たちも、特に私たちの地域や他の国で貿易関係を築いていることを知っています
58:33私たちの製品が評価され、私たちが必要としている国
58:40それが必ずしもあなたが言っている通りだとは言いませんが、現実には、私たちが
ここ何年もの間、たくさんの人にこう言われてきました 58:45製造業はできないし、他の国でも製造業ができるのを見てきたし
58:53人口が少ないかもしれないということは、強い貿易関係があるということは、ここで製造して出荷できるということだ
58:58どこにでもあるし、そこが私たちの頭があるべき場所です コからは何も学んでいないと思います
59:05 物資が入ってくるのを待たなければなりませんでした ああ、もし私たちがそこに行く必要がある場合は、神が私たちを助けてください、そして十分な武器がないので国を守ってください
59:10ここには弾丸はほとんどありません えー、燃料は2、3日は持ちこたえるのに十分です ちなみに今起こっていることはすべて
59:16だからわかっているでしょう、えと、よくわかりませんそして遅かれ早かれ、失業率はこっそり元に戻るだろうし、
59:22製造業には医薬品製造よりもはるかに多くの仕事があると私は言いますが、あなたがそうするのは問題ありませんが、
59: 27 欧州の例では両方ともできるはずだが、大きな市場だからできないのはなぜだろう
59:32ここで何かを作ってください、わかりました、ここでドイツ製の製品について言及しましたね
59:38オーストラリアは製造業を放棄しました 最終製品の製造を再び始めるのは簡単ではありません ああ、それを
一度にやろうとするのは無駄でしょう 59:46一度にやろうとするのは無駄でしょう でもこの国で私たちができることは
59:51これはヨーロッパにかかりますヨーロッパは国境調整炭素税を導入しようとしています
59:58 つまり、ヨーロッパに行く中国の電気自動車は関税に直面することになります。
1:00:07 バッテリーなどに使われているニッケルやコバルトは茶色の
1 を使って製造されていることがわかっているからです。 00:13グリーンテクノロジーではないテクノロジー オーストラリアには広大な土地があるからできること
1:00:20ソーラーパネルは、グリーン水素の生成を目的とした新しい大規模な再生可能エネルギー拡張プログラムに過ぎない
1:00:27輸出のためではない長距離輸出できないなんてクレイジーだよ
1:00:35南オーストラリア州のコバルト銅を精製するためのプラントを作るために 鉄鋼 ええとニッケルを精製して
1:00:42緑色にしてから販売するんだ中国人は
1:00:47調整を避けるために車にそれを入れるので、私は環境に優しい産業の例を示します
1:00:53オーストラリアは参加できるが、それには勇気のある政府が必要です
1:01:00それは雪のような計画の投資のようなものが必要です
1:01:07目的は化石燃料をやめて再生可能エネルギーを作り、それを使って
1:01:14新しい中間体を作ることです製造拠点
1:01:22 で機能するものは他に何もありません。それが私たちにあるすべてです
0:00stream the full series on ABC I view tonight who are governments
0:06governing for a panel of economic Heavy Hitters are here to answer your questions yanes yakis was the Finance
0:14Minister for Greece who's now warning governments of the pervasive power of the tech Giants American Economist
0:21Stephanie Kelton says not all government debt is bad debt journalist Joe Aston
0:26who's applied the blowtorch to corporations like Quant industry and science minister Ed husic
0:32wants to curb the power of big Tech while key Senator Jackie lamby has
0:38pushed for more relief for households struggling with the cost of living welcome to
0:44[Applause]
0:51[Music]
0:58Q&A [Applause]
1:08hello I'm Patricia caralis I want to pay my respects to the gadigal people of the eora Nation on Whose land we are meeting
1:15remember you can live stream us around the country on rvu and all the socials quandra is the hashtag please get
1:20involved to get us started tonight here's a question from Zaba uh
1:27cormax good evening in what way could the economic power and Global reach of
1:33tech Giants undermine or challenge the authority of national governments
1:40jannis this is nothing new the great conglomerates that emerged at the
1:47beginning of the 20th century you think of you Thomas Edison and Westinghouse and you CP in Germany they always had
1:55more power than the presidents and the prime ministers this is not what is new what what I find new and very worrying
2:02and that's what I try to bring to the attention of not governments but citizens primarily is that now there's a
2:09new form of capital Machinery you know when Henry Ford
2:15created the production lines for the Model T and so on the Machinery that was
2:21using was produced in order to produce other stuff like the Model T but now
2:27what's inside your phone again is Machinery but its business is to modify
2:34our behavior and to create whole
2:39Platforms in which consumers capitalists are all vessels
2:45are all we are all drawn into this they're not working on behalf of producers they are capturing producers
2:51they are capturing polies they algorithmic Capital extracts gigantic grants you
2:59know um money without producing anything they are not producing anything they are modifying our Behavior so the moment you
3:04enter amazon.com you've exited capitalism youve exited the market that's not a market it looks like a market it looks like a market so what is
3:10it it's not a market what is it it's look think about it it's like a
3:15fdom made of digital algorithmic Capital the moment you step in it you cannot
3:22talk to anyone to anyone unless the algorithm of Jeff Bezos matches you with a producer so as to maximize the amount
3:30of value that it extracts from you and from the producer and that value is extracted from the circular flow of
3:36income from the economy which means that demand for goods and services goes down jobs become BS this is a scientific term
3:45and um and and and we have stagnation and very low actual investment in the
3:50things that Society needs okay there you are this is different to what we had 100 years ago there has been a shift Joe
3:57Aston in fact it was today that the head of Australia's biggest bank the Commonwealth Bank made the point that
4:02the focus should be on regulating big Tech not focusing on Australian companies like Banks because big Tech is
4:09where the focus should be jeez we can't do two things at once we'll just do both of them feding well yeah I mean there's a point
4:17there that everyone in this debate is talking their own book when when one party is saying to about another
4:22counterparty regulate them this has been going forever uh but you know the big tech companies what that they're still
4:29it's been 11 years since the G20 made its focus I think it was in St Petersburg uh making these companies pay
4:37tax at the source of their income uh and that's what the whole PWC tax leak Scandal was about last year and and they
4:44still don't I mean the the major technology companies pay just a a negligible amount of of company Tax in
4:51Australia uh so that's that's one of the ways in which we completely fail to regulate them still right okay it hes
4:59cure the minister uh you all up yeah how
5:04do you begin to begin the project of regulating them and can and at the essence of the question is can National
5:11governments be have have sway can actually have they have influence uh I think on a number of levels it's got to
5:17operate I I think it's very difficult for individual governments uh to do so I
5:22think one of the turning point in my mind having followed this space for a similar amount of time as what Joe was
5:28reflecting on a few moments ago around the taxation Arrangements of big Tech uh
5:33and it was something that I I did focus on as a parliamentarian and particularly the way it had an interplay in pricing
5:39of products uh it was uh certainly evident to me back then that unless you
5:44got governments to work together and agree to work together you wouldn't really go anywhere quickly and in the
5:51last in particular the last few months um and I went to this AI safety Summit
5:57in London back in November m 30 countries there it was the first time countries had actually taken seriously
6:03the need to look at what's going to be done around AI particularly because not just because of the tech but what it
6:09does in terms of powering companies and the wealth of those companies and the influence of those companies as well and
6:16so I think we've gone through a bit of a turning point um there'll always be a question there'll always be someone saying we've got to do it faster we
6:22should have done it yesterday is there an appetite for regulation uh well I think uh across well a number of areas
6:28if you look at it be you know what we're seeing right now with the way that meta is trying to effectively you know Thug
6:36the situation around the news media bargaining code okay okay that's a particular
6:42example AI um well in in that case it's basically us determining where we go to
6:48within the framework of the media bargaining laws and whether or not uh meta gets designated uh and that will
6:54require them to come to the bargaining table uh that's got to be worked through as as well as on the AI side making sure
7:01that um these companies aren't going ahead doing whatever they want regardless of risk they've got to be
7:06able to take into account what impact their products have on the rest of the country are met acting like thugs well I
7:12think they've just basically got used to this um uh approach they did this a couple of years ago they withdrew their
7:19services um you know they basically got hounded back uh in they're doing it to the Canadians in one shape or form or
7:26another and it's really up to governments to be able to tag team because the effects of what they're
7:31doing particularly around social media and the potential for disinformation as well on their platforms that is serious
7:38in terms of the operation of democracies in a year where about half the world's population is going to be going an
7:43election Jackie lamb do you think met are thugs are you worried about the power that they have yeah they're bloody
7:49thugs they're like the banks let's be honest they've got way too much power and you need to do something I've got
7:55kids out there that are highly addicted to this sort of stuff and it is good getting worse and it needs to be shut
8:00down the misinformation especially around um especially you see that going on around political elections things
8:08like that this has got to be stopped these guys need to be fined or stand up to them and say get out then get out
8:14okay but if you send them out Stephanie is that like can you do that well you could do it I mean we just had in the US
8:20uh a hearing one of many and you know there's a lot of bipartisan interest in this subject and they lined up the CEOs
8:27of Facebook and Twitter X and Snapchat and Tik Tok and you know sat these men
8:33and women down and one after another members of the you know US Senate said this is a bill I've co-sponsored with
8:40and each of the bills was co-sponsored with someone from the other political party so the politicians are out there
8:45they're saying we've got all of these things we'd like to do and then the question was to the CEO do you support
8:51this legislation and one after another they went down the list and say senator I'm not prepared to support that legislation today as if you're asking
8:58them for the permission s to regulate them this is the problem right so the US situation is is where the rubber hits
9:04the road the online harm uh movement in Congress if they really nail uh
9:10particularly meta um on this partic on this particular issue they have the potential to be treated as the next
9:16tobacco but the Australian government isn't doing anything serious I mean the news bargaining media code is is I mean
9:23the amount of money we're talking about is risible uh meta is choosing not to pay 70 million
9:29anymore I me7 million I mean I think Josh fredenberg spent that much on car parks in kuong that were never built
9:36it's if if if the if you're solving for a problem in the news media bargaining
9:41code that Australian journalism is what would you do if you in charge well I'm not in charge that's why that's why I
9:46get to sit in the cheap seats and just opine constantly hey that's not a cheap seat Honestly though what should they do
9:52what can I yeah give one example to the minister in particular how about charging a tax a digital tax on the
9:59revenues of every transaction every time anyone pays Facebook money in order to
10:05promote their event their political views their you know commercial
10:10activities they should be charged some like 5% on their revenue that is on the revenue side of things you cannot
10:17regulate the content because let's face it the managers of Facebook do not
10:24understand the algorithms it's a bit like in the banking system with a with
10:29those uh Weapons of Mass Financial destruction that blew up and you know
10:35the world of finance and brought us to the GFC the very Financial Engineers that were were creating those
10:40derivatives didn't know what was you know the mathematical formulas within it so unless we take a view that this kind
10:49of capital which I called Cloud capital algorithmic capital call call it what you may is a serious threat to our
10:56society our social fabric our economy our effective demand our tax base and go
11:04in a very radical Direction which I'm going to propose now to say to Facebook if you want to operate in Australia you
11:11are going to have to deposit a certain percentage of your shares in an Australian Sovereign fund and therefore
11:20acquire returns to Capital as well as voting power inside that Corporation and
11:26if you don't want it you can buger off something that you just there's this one
11:32small problem uh and that is that Facebook would destroy the Australian government just like the mining companies did to the Australian
11:37government but that's a recipe for simply giving up on the smidgen of an iota of a possibility of democracy this
11:44is the power you're talking about you're talking about incredibly powerful compan that's why politics is irreplaceable it's not a technical fix right I'm
11:50interested in that you say it would destroy the government well that's what I that's what I would do if I was that's how I would respond if I was in that
11:56position and that is why the government any government has a duty to the Australian people to organize
12:02politically a democratic a democratic debate for resisting those um but Joe
12:08reckons they can't win it Ed can you win it I uh have to say I've looked at a number of Industries where uh you know
12:16their actions have got the backs of people up um you know I I fought a few years ago against the gas sector over
12:22the prices that they were charging uh there's only so far you could push uh but Tech is different in this country
12:28and I I think in most political environments and picking up on Stephanie's point in the US um there's a
12:34lot more focus on doing something about tech quite distinct to other sectors and
12:40quick question Joe used the term tobacco and I was like do you see them as like
12:46big tobacco uh Joe says a lot of things that take on board Joe are they like big
12:51tobacco well if you think about uh what are people what what a parents at home concerned about and I say this I'm not a
12:57parent but as I understand it the things that people are are are concerned about at home about technology companies is
13:03one what are they doing to our children and particularly in you know in terms of body image um and really huge and
13:10irreversible emotional damage to the Next Generation two the bastards don't pay any tax where they where they make
13:15their income um and that can't be fixed uh easily because the other countries want that income you know the fight is
13:21but you can still tax sales here in Australia done through the internet okay
13:27and Facebook in particular yeah well because right now Australians are paying you you're we're pay we're going to pay for the damage now that's what we're
13:33doing because they're not paying because they have no moral compass all right that's where we're at that gets us to the topic of our online poll we're
13:40asking you should Australian Regulators attempt to curb the economic and political power of big tech companies
13:45like meta you can cast your votes Anon anonymously on the Q&A Facebook and YouTube accounts or the ABC newsx and
13:52Instagram account we'll bring you the results later Facebook account you can
13:59vote on their account oh gosh we should have really thought about that guys next we'll hear start you invited
14:06Interruption so you can't really we we invite interruptions not heckling though Ed our next question comes from Jane
14:13hler great thanks Patricia uh good evening my question is for the panel uh
14:19I'm part of the dying breed of people that's lived a large chunk of their lives without technology as such I feel
14:28a resp responsibility to protect our younger persons from Tech comp from harm
14:34caused by tech companies I believe we need to promote critical thinking Sport
14:40and creativity uh in the school system and in The Wider population uh would you
14:47agree with this and can you please offer some of your uh suggestions around
14:53important actions that need to prevent this harm thank you Jane you're concerned about the impact that social
14:58media is essentially having on young people yeah what do you think what do you think it's doing to young people
15:04well uh as a sociologist and a parent of eight children my husband and I have eight children ranging from 35 down to
15:1118 we've seen firsthand some harm that can be done and that is the dopamine
15:17that can be released you know for younger persons it's very hard for them to get off the technology um we have
15:24cyber bullying we have uh the um people competing uh amongst other people
15:31on Facebook uh and that leads to depression and anxiety and we have a
15:38whole range of issues that are really confronting us and we need to really as
15:43a society step up and say we need to really uh protect our younger persons and that's what we feel strongly my
15:49husband and myself and many other people so taking it to the panel Jackie how do you even start to deal with so many
15:55layers of issues well all the schools around the St can start start making them put them put their phones in their bags first thing in the morning they're
16:01not allowed to bring them out to the afternoon we all went through school without phones I think you know that would give them a good 8 hours off for
16:08the day that'll be a good start but you are right the addiction I mean parents out there wrote about alcohol and drug
16:14abuse and addiction I tell you what watch your kids with tech because uh
16:20they are getting addicted uh they're staying up late of a nighttime they're not going to school this is the next
16:26generation of addiction I'm very grateful I'm a little bit like you my my boys are a little bit older they missed
16:33all that uh so they the only thing they use they have a phone for uh phone calls and um texting but these younger kids
16:39out there some of those horrific stories that I'm hearing and uh what they're going through and it is an addiction you
16:45can see them it takes two or three days they they it's no different to watch them come off drugs or alcohol I kid you
16:52not I've watched this recently and uh watching these the the performance you
16:58know this is how bad they're getting they are putting holes in walls the same as drugs and alcohol they are hitting
17:03their parents this is the addiction this is Tech addiction this is real this is what it's doing to these young
17:09kids uh I think that lots of people have anecdotal evidence for the way it's impacting their families for sure but
17:16how do you how do you deal with it at a regulatory or or you know real level to try and stop it I mean it's seems like
17:22it's story after Story of parents frustrated what do you do I think that it is largely up to parents and if we
17:29could get schools to do more because the tech companies themselves aren't doing it and we know that the algorithms are
17:35feeding different kinds of content to kids in different countries I mean I have a 16-year-old daughter and so I
17:42know how much time she's on her phone but I also know thank goodness that she
17:48and some of her friends are aware of the the dangers and they're aware of what it can do to some of their friends they
17:55launched a podcast I watched one of the episodes that she and two other girls recorded really recently where they're
18:01talking the whole episode was about social media and the downsides of social media so I'm glad that they'll talk to
18:06one another about it I think it probably doesn't happen nearly as often as we'd like but the the onus is on us for the
18:13moment Ed it's certainly and picking up on a point that Joe raised earlier around the online harms movement in the
18:20the US uh it's certainly been something that we've focused on uh my colleague Michelle Roland is starting to lead that
18:26work on developing uh a response on those issues so that we can hold some of these firms to account because they do
18:33need to be held to account if they're in particular shaping algorithms in ways
18:38that are leading people similar to what Stephanie just mentioned um in terms of the content that's coming forward and
18:45just continuing to do that we've seen that in other platforms as well YouTube for example had big issues uh a few
18:52years ago uh and had to be pressured to take that seriously in terms of the way its algorithm was feeding up content
18:59that was extremist in nature uh and I think there's going to have to be a similar sort of thing that will happen
19:04with social media uh as well to be you know part of that you being accountable
19:10and solving this issue okay provocative question but Joe have we have we
19:15honestly have we are we too late yes like it feels like we're too late have
19:20you tried to take a phone off a teenager I have not I wish you luck yeah yeah no
19:26the genie is out of the bottle we do have to be real istic about that there is no going back to the days of your you
19:31know it's so you got to work with it so what do you do well you tax them no no
19:37no the taxation is not going to solve this problem no it's not one one thing you could do is you could um school kids
19:45to create their own algorithms on the basis of their own principles and values
19:50so you know to create their own algorithm communities outside of Facebook outside of the big tech
19:56companies whose algorithms I mean the the algorithm itself is not a problem but an algorithm that has been created
20:01in order to create hatred and to create addiction that is the problem so it's a
20:07question of property rights who owns the algorithm if you have imagine you had you know the local library together with
20:13local schools saying okay here's a project we'll create our own algorithm for discussing amongst ourselves
20:19and picking topics and highlighting them in a way that we collectively have
20:25agreed that is the right way of communicating but Patricia to to bring another dimension which concerns me
20:31regarding young people the death of the liberal individual of the autonomous
20:36person I have noticed in universities and talking to young people over the last few years that because think of
20:43Google right all those you know all singing old dancing big tech companies in Silicon Valley you go in there um
20:50they have very pleasant architecture they have uh ping pong tables it it's
20:55very appealing to young people and they all want a job there because these are the good jobs not the B jobs now just
21:03looking at my daughter you know when it was 1617 I could see that subconsciously she her
21:11friends were very worried about what they were uploading on Tik Tok on
21:17Snapchat and all that because they knew dip down subconsciously that one day when they go for a job interview some
21:25bot or maybe a person or a person that remind resembles a bot is going to
21:30interview them after having checked all their online history so there is no separation like we used to have between
21:37work and play between messing around and doing things that will come to haunt you
21:42during job interviews that for me is just a a machine creating angst amongst
21:49the young regarding their future and that is something that we should tackle surveilling them basically throughout
21:56their entire lives and also putting them in a situation of self-censorship at the age of 16 without
22:02even realizing it that's a very powerful point we'll keep this discussion going with a question from Aiden
22:09Newan this this questions on intergenerational Equity the the idea
22:14that we can leave behind promises and opportunities that are as good if not
22:20better for the next Generation than the current it feels like it's fundamentally under threat from the way our current
22:27economic system has been set up particularly the way we've designed our property and economic incentives does
22:33the panel agree and if so what needs to change Joe Cy um well uh housing is is
22:43property is is difficult is very difficult and it's a bit like technology the genie is out of the bottle and we're
22:49not going back to the days where houses cost you know three times average income
22:54so um if your objective is to own a house in in a Sydney or in a Melbourne
23:00and you do not have access to the bank of mom and dad you are screwed and um
23:06and I would change your objective and that's unfortunate but again like one of those things we can pretend that
23:11governments will continue to pretend that they're trying to change it but no government actually wants house prices to fall uh that would be quite a problem
23:18for all the voters who own houses uh for them with all the all the voters who own houses so uh the that that it's it's a
23:26real tragedy um the I think in terms of the incentives of equity I think uh this country
23:34massively over taxes I'm I'm already can't believe I'm saying this in front with two economists on the panel but
23:39massively over taxes uh wages and um let's let's and under taxes assets and
23:46the income and assets and you heard through that whole stage Street tax cuts there was a lot of class-based language
23:52around uh how they were tax cuts for the rich but the truth is that the the VA
23:57that the rich the real rich and I understand why someone making $200,000 or $300,000 a year seems Rich to someone
24:04who's making $40,000 a year but the truth is that the real rich in this country they don't uh work for uh
24:10salaries they they uh they earn income in two ways on the increase in the
24:15valuation of their assets and on the income those assets throw off and th those and that income is taxed at a far
24:22lower rate than workers who are working for a wage and I think that is is a
24:28structural problem with the Australian tax system unfortunately the bad news is that no uh no government will seriously
24:34try and change it because it's a great way to lose election because it's a it's a suicide note isn't it to your election
24:41champ Jackie lamby uh you're not quite running for prime minister you're a
24:47crossbencher so you can kind of you got a little more oh it's early PK just early can you declare your Ambitions to
24:54run for prime minister here tonight do we need to get bold and and look at changing the tax
25:00Arrangements um we need to do something about the tax Arrangements there's no doubt about that but we also need to do
25:06something about the arrangements up here and down here and I'll explain that quickly up here we have uh public servants senior public servants out
25:12there and uh Chiefs that our Defense Force are earning twice as much as a prime minister so you tell me how you
25:18work that out uh we've got universities out there that have gone into the RO and they've all given themselves those those
25:24Vice chancellors have given themselves pay Rises that's what they're doing while their staff are screaming out uh
25:30for pay Rises themselves you know that's what we're looking at and then we got down here with these kids these kids
25:36Once Upon a Time could go on afford to play play sport now to play sport you
25:42can be looking at I think it was $750 that I heard an 11year old old girl in CRA was paying to play for soccer for 20
25:50games this year where are those you know what happens to those families who can't afford that that's without the gear
25:56that's without um representing your state which costs more Once Upon a Time you could go to a small business if you
26:02have one of your kids representing the state and the small business will give you a small donation of $100 or $50 well
26:07small business can't afford to do that either so I've got a big problem from down here I believe that while those kids are in Primary School especially
26:14primary school they should not be playing for sports and the state government should be picking that up but let's get the priorities right here up
26:21the top here cuz when I'm seeing Vice chancellors that are failing to get their jobs done are failing to get those
26:27kids back in universities and are giving themselves pay Rises I have a problem with that so you have an issue with wage
26:32inequity I have an issue with W inequity that point that Joe made though that because that's true assets they make
26:39money and then you give them to your kids and then they keep making money and it's intergenerational right that's the
26:45that's the story whereas wage earners it might be high but that's it yes yeah so
26:52but like you said it's like unless you've got a rich unless you've come from a rich family um those assets aren't being part down let's be honest
26:59with you we certainly don't have that we're not Sydney and Melbourne in Tasmania we don't have a lot of Rich parents down there they're surviving
27:05they're taking their money into age care so they can finish off comfortably they don't have much left for their kids so
27:10we do have a problem we have a housing issue out there and like you said it's completely out of control we have lost control out of that and we need to do
27:17something about it and we're still arguing about how and where we're building these houses that's where we're at Ed hus do we need a
27:23fundamental re shake up conversation I know you're not going to declare sort of a new tax policy tonight but do you
27:30think that there's well you know let's you can but I'm living in reality um to
27:37address this intergenerational well we just went through a pretty big tax change uh just over the last few months
27:44uh that um attracted quite a bit of criticism in terms of reshaping stage
27:49three and that's on top of what we've done uh on multinational tax reform and superannuation reform uh as well so I
27:58think we've got a lot you know on the on the books as we uh as we speak and getting through all that um being a
28:05generational side though just addressing Aiden's uh point is a serious one I mean we're looking at both shortterm and
28:11long-term fixes on that um a lot of people have felt like they've been stuck with the same wage for way too long and
28:17never saw their wages move and we were actually a government that said we want to see better and wages are now growing
28:24way better than they have four years promised by but well I compared to where they're at compared to where they're at
28:31doing better they can always always people will want to do better and I get that but for years we lived under
28:37conservative governments that said wages would improve and they did nothing about it and they never actually changed and
28:43we also wanted to make sure that we made other changes through the taxation Arrangements just mentioned I think the big thing is going going to housing as
28:50well um it is complex and I'll take on board Joe's point because you're going to have a whole bunch of people once
28:55prices start to go down they get nervous about it but one of the other big things to try and deal with affordability is to
29:02actually increase the number of homes I see that in my part of the world in Western Sydney uh and increasingly um
29:09people will not be able to move into the city um they're moving further and further out west and I've seen the edge
29:15of Sydney continue to move but we are trying to address that housing affordability issue because it's one of
29:20the big drivers on your point about intergenerational uh differences when it
29:26comes to housing and got to say I take on board the point about um some people handing down houses from one generation
29:33to the ne next but I'm from Western Sydney I'm no magnate so I I I don't see
29:38necessarily that that that does happen but I do genu genuinely get concerned when I see the cost of homes in my part
29:46of the world where I've grown up and know how those prices have moved and we do need to U make a change on that and
29:52we are trying to do it both for housing in terms of housing affordability and helping rers to actually buy their first
29:58home Aiden which is a demand side what concerns you about this are you able to get into the
30:05property market so um for me yes we've been we've been
30:10lucky me and my partner um I think very lucky to have secure well paid jobs um
30:16but you know when I look at my friends my peers other younger Australians other younger Aussies um I you know I feel for
30:23our plight I I don't think the rules as the currently stand um you know really
30:29go to solve the longer term issues um I don't think the system's sustainable and I think something has to give it some
30:35point Y yep it what has to give priorities and it'll take a government that's got guts to do that do you know
30:40you young people are paying more tax than what we get out of our petroleum resources rent tax we have some of some
30:46of the most um high rated uh resources in this country and we're getting more
30:52out of you young people bu tax than what we are out of Mining and petroleum resource rent tax it comes comes down to
30:57priority and it has it comes down having the guts knowing very well you're not going to get a political donation off him next time and that's what it comes
31:04down to its priority and it should be about our young people and new people are not being put first and that's what it comes down to and that's the truth of
31:11the matter so house prizes are going to keep sorry can I just add to
31:16that well said well said Jackie uh Norway taxes the oil industry to
31:25subsidize universi education to make it free and to subsidize social housing Australia does exactly the opposite and
31:32that is your responsibility as a government yeah and everything I've heard from you today on this issue is a
31:38copout it is your responsibility to tax the resource industry to make you know just do away
31:46with hex it was a terrible reform by the Alp under the Dawkins reforms it it it
31:52was a catastrophe for the universities the quality of University education has suffered but as a result the buildings
31:58are much nicer because Vice chancellors receive a million bucks in order to be real estate developers while the levels
32:06of University education are plummeting social housing you talked about
32:11increasing the supply of housing absolutely what are you doing about that it's not going to increase on its own
32:17you need to build social housing we and you're not doing it no no
32:22well you can say we're not doing it and that's fine to be living a life fact three are you doing it but the real is that's exactly what we're to do well
32:29we've only just started as a new government I I say we've gone from it isn't happening
32:36to it is but it's not enough is that what you're arguing or well you haven't done it yeah well there you go and where are you going to get the money from
32:42because you're not taxing the resources all right let's go to money because Stephanie you're all about money and uh
32:49you're I am all about M
I want to go to your modern monetary Theory give me the
32:54elevator pitch of what that means it means we want to tell the truth about how the monetary system works we want to
33:00be honest about the capacity of a currency issuing government like the Australian government the Japanese
33:06government the British government the US government the Canadian government and so forth and so on and recognize that
33:13countries that operate with their own currency that issue their own currency do not and cannot operate their budgets
33:20like a household that things simply work differently and when you talk about governments needing to quote unquote
33:27find the money it's as if we think we're still operating on a gold standard and somebody's got to go dig a hole in the
33:32ground and and pull gold out in order to be able to spend money that's but the issue with going into more debt is
33:38inflation that's the issue is okay but I didn't say anything about debt so far I'm just trying to have a like candid
33:44conversation about where the money comes from so let's understand that in the modern era when the Australian
33:51government decides it wants to spend more the instructions go to The Reserve Bank and the only way the government can
33:57spend is for the Reserve Bank to change the numbers in the bank account so that the dep the deposits increase and the
34:04money is created it's not like there's some other way for it to work there's only one way for this to work government
34:09says it wants to spend the Reserve Bank carries out the payments on behalf of government and it does so using nothing
34:15more than a computer keyboard changes the numbers up in the bank accounts new money is created we can all take a deep
34:21breath knowing that the government can't run out of money but it can run out of things to buy so infl is the thing
34:27you've got to worry about not insolvency not bankrupting your country there is no national credit card we need to have a
34:33grownup conversation
okay Joe do we need to print more money well well as Dr
34:40Kelton just said inflation is the thing we need to worry about and it in printing more money causes inflation no it doesn't well okay then I'm wrong um
34:48well sure because we it I mean it could well spending not PR not print there's
34:55no other way for it to work so I've just explained there is only one way for the government to spend can the government
35:01spend too much yes of course we can have in total too much spending in the economy the economy doesn't have the
35:08capacity maybe to keep up with all that demand and you get some increase in prices sure but you know we spent the
35:14better part of a decade before covid with people saying governments were printing money the US was printing money
35:20Japan was printing money the UK was printing money everybody was printing money and there was no inflation for a
35:25decade in the US a decade across the Euro zone three decades in Japan
35:30printing printing printing no inflation to show for it so inflation finally showed up not because anybody printed
35:37any money but because covid showed up and broke Supply chains and then the the
35:42inflation was the natural consequence especially given after 15 years of zero investment in Europe and in the united
35:48or very little investment in the United States so Supply had been constrained because we were not investing all this time but 100 100% of the inflation was
35:55not supply side no but everyone who's looked at this at least in the US contest context but look at the ECB
look
36:02at people who've done the autopsy that go back and really do detailed analysis and say where did this inflation come
36:08from that we've experienced over the course of the last three years or so it came from the supply side it came from
36:14the bottlenecks in production and later from the you know war in Ukraine and Russia it came from energy and food
36:20prices very little look at the San Francisco Federal Reserve look at Moody's Analytics anybody who's done
36:26these anal is the ECB will tell you look we haven't even talked about the price gouging corporations took advantage of
36:33the inflationary environment they raised prices so some of it came from there but very little of the inflation for those
36:40who've actually done the work and tried to explain it we'll say that it came from governments just simply spending
36:45too much the RBA in Australia said that between they modeled it in different ways but between a third and a half of
36:52the inflation outbreak in Australia was demand side not as an economist may I make a point sure sure look into these
36:58models they are a little a little bit like sausages if you know what's in them you don't want to touch them you
37:08know the Ed husic on the big question use that one before it still works well
37:15it's it's pretty good but on on inflation price scouching I mean the government has been arguing that it that
37:22a lot of it is actually coming from the supply side as well right oh there's been uh def an element of uh immediately
37:28postco there was certainly that um we've also looked at and had concerns and
37:35again I see it in my own Community when people are going to supermarkets shopping what they're getting in the
37:41basket versus um what they used to be able to get for the same amount of money and it's why we've um said we need to
37:47have an increased focus and had the A C looking at for example what's happening on that side where it directly affects
37:54people uh in the street as it were so there are are those areas I think the difficulty in terms of what you I
38:00appreciate what Stephanie was was saying I think the the issue will be that governments around the world I think you
38:06appreciate are concerned about where inflation's at still you know some of it's moderating not moving fast enough
38:13um we're seeing it stabilize here uh and the issue will be just to to see that actually that fight end yeah uh and see
38:21inflation come down now I'd like to bring in Shan nagesh
38:27uh thanks Patricia so with the holy month of Ramadan underway a time of
38:32fasting prayers and coming together for the Muslim Community is this the appropriate time as mentioned by Mr
38:40albanesi and possibly the best opportunity for the government to resume funding for the
38:46unrwa yes so anra that's the aid Agency for Palestinians Ed hus I might start with you
38:52there uh well the biggest thing um that needs to be front and center here is
38:58that um children over there are starving in in Gaza people without food water
39:05medicine uh and there is a concern of a further uh loss of life as a result of
39:11Israel's military operations uh in in Gaza um we've had that suspension of
39:17funding we are working hard and we do need to see funding resumed uh as quickly as possible uh unra doesn't just
39:25Supply humanitarian Aid it's responsible for the functioning of community in in
39:31Gaza and uh you know there are decisions being made either suspending um help to
39:38Gaza seeing Israel's military operations there and the impact that's had on lives
39:44lost uh estimated 31,000 plus and nearly 73,000 uh injured um this is uh we we do
39:53need to get this restored as quickly as possible and you want it restored to anra uh well once the we've got to go
40:00through the investigations and see what they say but that needs to happen as quickly as possible because the
40:05government's looking at other options there's a push just this afternoon I'm sure you've seen the stories some people
40:11saying um some of the Israeli Lobby groups that they would like to see the money go towards the floating um aid aid
40:20um base the peer that they've described the US would that be appropriate I think the best thing that could happen right
40:26now is that Israel actually allows humanitarian Aid to go through that's the thing that's not being discussed uh
40:33adequately they need to let this happen but why aren't they there is a there is
40:39an unprecedented crisis that is happening there and there are decisions life and death decisions that are being
40:44made by Israel that need to be dealt with and there needs to be more humanitarian Aid going through and it's
40:50not just while we focused on Gaza um there's also in the West Bank uh people
40:56are being being prevented in terms of their jobs their incomes um they're economically being crippled in that that
41:01part uh as well that hasn't even been contemplated yet where people are begging for cash and heating uh through
41:08the course of of winter and uh I think that's another another issue as well that has been missed and needs to be
41:14recognized and dealt with so you think the responsibil on Israel uh yeah in terms of humanitarian Aid absolutely and
41:21much of the human International Community has been saying this needs to be addressed that innocent civilians
41:27should not be paying the price and they should be able to get the aid flowing through a lot quicker and the fact that
41:33the US has had to get to that stage of talking about that float you know that floating peer uh demonstrates that um I
41:41think in many respects his roers refus refused to listen to what I believe are absolutely not just reasonable but vital
41:48calls for people to get the aid that they need so if Israel's not listening should they face sanctions and
41:54ramifications well I think you're going to see that enter uh you you'll see that enter into the public uh debate
42:00increasingly do you think that we need to start having that conversation it's not not up to me to be floating you know
42:07those type of discussions but the point for me is to say certainly that we need to see Israel take a different uh
42:14position when it comes to the flow of humanitarian Aid there are at least you know seven different points which that
42:20Aid could come through not least of which being through rougher um and that needs to be improved yanis the
42:27Australian government has changed its line significantly in the last few months as the death toll has risen
42:33signing a joint agreement with New Zealand and Canada uh for instance
42:38calling on Israel not to enter into a ground offensive in raer there's been a
42:43big shift hasn't there in the world's response NOP too little too late
42:50y The Starving Children in Gaza are not starving they are starved
42:59intentionally there is a concerted effort by Israel to starve the population of Gaza this is not
43:05collateral damage this is an intentional policy it is a war they would argue they would argue that the reason the AIDS not
43:12going in yes is uh because Hamas takes the aid and that's the argument they make what what's your response to that
43:19that it is evidently not true that there is a policy you've just all you need to
43:25do is to listen to Israeli television to listen to Israeli ministers being very
43:31clear that they are not letting Aid in as a means of starving the population to
43:37submission until Hamas um lays down their arms uh half of the population
43:44leave and go to Egypt by denying this funding to the
43:51United Nations uh the only Aid agency that can actually bring Aid in into Gaza
43:56because you can bring it to the shores of Gaza but how is it going to be distributed the only agency is that and
44:03denying defunding it which is what your government did on the basis of
44:08un well that's defunding yeah when you have people kids starving to death and
44:13you pause you are defunding the amelioration of the starvation of those children and
44:19therefore you in my view the Australian the image of Australia has been irreparably damaged by this and now
44:27beginning to fund again an organization which can't bring the food in because the Israeli Defense Force is not letting
44:34them bring it in it's not they're not even letting the Americans bring it in this is the time for boycotting
44:40sanctioning and divesting from Israel and we need to do it on behalf of
44:47progressive Israelis who are suffocating in Israel as we speak because they can see that the whole world is looking upon
44:55Israel as the source of war crimes we need to make sure that Israeli
45:02progressives and humanists do not continue to flee because they're leaving the country and they will surrender the
45:08country to the the zelot and the alra Zionist who will make Israel
45:14uninhabitable Jackie lambi at the start of this crisis you gave a powerful speech to the parliament you were very um concerned about the Hamas attack as a
45:22lot of people have been and should be 5 months into this conflict what are your
45:28Reflections do you think Israel's gone too far uh I think Israel is starting to annoy a lot of people out there they're
45:34sitting right on the line are they about to go over it if they don't do you think theyve crossed it yet um I will just say
45:40they're right on that line I think this has been going on for too long the problem is you do have terrorists and terrorists um are bastards there's no
45:46other way to put that anywhere that has terrorists you will have um uh uh
45:52destabilization uh through your country there is no doubt about that when you have a group when you have a large group of them that's my first thing but my my
45:58second point is this we have a thing out there it's called United Nations okay we
46:04have soldiers out there that wear blue caps now I'd like to see Israel take out
46:09one of them when they're on the ground passing out food why aren't we talking about putting peacekeepers over there at
46:16these checkpoints neutral countries that are not involved okay to make sure this food is
46:22getting delivered why aren't we doing that nobody's talking about this and I
46:28don't see a reason why not we can't they haven't got months and months those kids over there or those
46:34all the adults or anyone on that Gaza Strip it needs to be done tomorrow I would like to see United Nations talking
46:40about bringing those blue hats in there on that Gaza Strip cuz I'd like to see
46:45bloody Israel try and take one of them out okay Joe Biden will V it again as is
46:51Ved every move towards a humanitarian Direction since the beginning it's the
46:57United States vetoing and dragging the rest of the West along with them well the rest of the West needs to stand on
47:03to2 feet yeah is that is that a viable option the one that has been proposed I
47:10mean I this is sort of beyond the scope of uh my area of expertise but it
47:15certainly seems like a viable option this is uh an absolute humanitarian
47:21disaster every day that passes is another day of L lives and I I mean
47:27there's no there's no doubt but that there is an urgent need to act on this
47:33to bring this to an end plenty to get to tonight he's Gordon
47:41celby evening everybody um my question is uh about the US
47:47elections uh very sort of contemporary thing this year is Trump support less
47:54than portrayed are there a whole block of rusted on Republicans who won't vote
48:00for Trump for reasons such as the abortion changes is Attack on Democracy
48:05on the 6th of January Ukraine and other Antics is this block large enough to
48:11keep him out of office Stephanie so there are some Republicans
48:18who are what they call never trumpers they voted for him once and they have vowed that they will not do it again
48:25some are turning to uh RFK Jr as an alternative to Donald Trump um I think
48:31with women there is something uh possibly stronger when you say are we
48:37underestimating or overestimating the appeal of Donald Trump the abortion issue really does resonate with women
48:44including Republican women and I know some of them and I know some of them for whom this issue uh is pushing them into
48:52the Joe Biden Camp so at the end of the day you know our political system is so complicated the Electoral College and I
49:00mean it really isn't a two-way race it really is uh this third party candidate
49:05uh RFK Jr is polling anywhere between 20 and 30% depending on the poll that you look at so any Anything Can Happen
49:14really and it I think it largely comes down to um how many votes RFK Jr is
49:20pulling from Trump versus Biden and the way the Electoral College works and we got a handful of Swing States nine
49:28really important swing States the last poll that I saw had Donald Trump leading in eight of the nine so anything are you
49:36really worried that that um Donald Trump will win the next election uh yeah of
49:42course how worried very worried and do you think Joe Biden's the right one to take him on well he's our candidate I
49:49mean he is the candidate to take him on do you think he can beat him I I I think
49:55he can can beat him but again it come it comes down to this weird interplay between the the three leading candidates
50:02and the Electoral College and how you get out the vote in these key and it comes down to precincts I mean Hillary
50:08Clinton lost by 83,000 votes it's it's narrow narrow margins and it becomes you
50:14know who's got the savviest get out the vote team and works those precincts and figures out at the you know at the last
50:20moment how the votes are going to stack you've lived in the US do what
50:26what do you think of this third candidate business I lived in California I didn't live in the US I I never went actually into real
50:34America different country um look I I don't uh I don't I have to say I'm not
50:40sufficiently informed really about rfk's campaign but uh it's pretty obvious uh
50:46that uh a younger Democratic candidate would have
50:52been a very good idea because uh I think Trump wouldn't be in in such a strong
50:57position if if they if the Democratic party had been prepared to and President Biden had been able to make the right
51:03decision for the country jiannis I think he completely
51:09indeterminate it's impossible to predict uh and sometimes it's important to be able to you know confess that we don't
51:15know it's good to say that you don't actually know you can't predict the future right what I do suspect is that
51:23Biden has lost more of of his core youth vote because of Gaza compared to the
51:30Republicans that Trump has lost due to abortion I'm not happy about this I'm
51:36simply stating it as a observation estimation but what I find interesting
51:43is that on the one hand if you take these issues you have uh Joe Biden who
51:49is uh focusing on Trump's misogyny on abortion on uh um these cultural issues
51:57which are essential to civilized people in order not to discuss the crushing
52:02reality that both white and black workingclass people have minuscule
52:09income and zero wealth and that creates a lot of discontent at the same time
52:14Trump is addressing these people in a way that Biden cannot because he is so
52:20close to Wall Street so close to the elites Trump is is better at addressing
52:27they have not in order to usurp their vote and once in the White House do what
52:33he did the last time give everything to Wall Street and tax cats to the super rich I think that is the conundrum of
52:38the United States and I think we should all be very happy that in Australia we have compulsory voting because because at least you know you know that
52:44everybody's going to vote whereas in the United States it's a question of who is going to abstain with greater
52:51probability okay we always end up really happy about compulsory voting on this show so let's Round of Applause to
52:59yeah honestly it's just like make it gives us a feel-good moment and we can bring you the results of our online poll
53:05now we asked you should Australian Regulators attempt to curb the economic and political power of big tech companies like Mesa more than 3,300 of
53:13you responded here's how you voted 84% of you say yes 9% said no and 7% are
53:19unsure I think that's an overwhelming number next we'll hear from Ryan Young
53:25hi uh I from a bathroom and plumbing supplies retailer who sells products made in Germany and Italy these products
53:33are made in countries with similar wages unionism and costs associated with manufacturing these products why then
53:41does a country who has made a fortune digging valuable resources up from the ground does not have the capacity to
53:48make these same products here particularly given the reduced freight cost to the consumer of homegrown
53:54products compared to those made in countries like Europe it's a really interesting question you're the minister
54:00for the industry and that's how big big Focus I mean coming out of the pandemic and we've spoken about it through the
54:07course of the show tonight um you know the things that we needed most weren't there when we needed them uh and that
54:13was a pretty important lesson uh for us the impact of Supply chains and
54:19geopolitics the way that that's operated and obviously the other big challenge of our time is climate change and the need
54:24to reduce emission and I think we can mobilize Australian industry to be part of that and that's why we are focused uh
54:31especially on making sure that we are a country that makes things it creates not
54:36only the products that we need in those key areas we can't do everything but we will be focused on on key areas we've
54:43got to be able to do more in value adding like we in terms of what we have with resources we have the greatest
54:49store of critical minerals on the planet and yet we don't really do the extra step of the value ad uh with respect to
54:56their uh but also across medical Sciences uh and obviously energy and Emissions uh and emerging capabilities
55:03in technology as well where we have a lot of smart people here in this country who feel for whatever reason that
55:09they're just not getting the support or interest and leave our Shores to chase what they want to do elsewhere so from
55:15our point of view being able to be a country that makes things uh that we sharpen our technology Edge and through
55:22that that we create really good secure uh long-term jobs as well well-paying jobs that is a big Focus for us is it
55:30going to be easy to sort out no like I'm not coming here saying we're going to fix this in one term we've had uh big in
55:38terms of global shifts around manufacturing and also within manufacturing the nature of it uh itself
55:44uh but it is something that I think is important and certainly our government thinks important uh longer term to do
55:50exactly the type of things you're asking in terms of the question of being able to have our own products when we need need them I think uh there's a very
55:57simple question uh sorry very simple answer to your question if you're a German uh manufacturer you have uh huge
56:04trade openness with the entire European continent you're talking about 400 million households I'm probably maybe
56:11give or take here you you've got your potential customers of 15 million households and the the scale benefits of
56:18of that we just can't compete it's that simple and now I I which is why a big Australia is a very good idea um the
56:25problem is when we talk about housing um as we continue to grow the population we
56:31can't keep up with the housing Supply and that drives up the price of assets so so it's very complicated but I mean
56:37there's a lot Australia that keeps up on the infrastructure front is it possible uh H look good question I I would it's a
56:45bit like can Trump win the election I would not want to predict uh the future but I I certainly think that there are
56:51huge benefits to be unlocked for the the Australian economy if we go uh continue
56:57to really aggressively grow the population but yeah we we we have to think about the downsides as well Jackie
57:02big population um I don't think we can handle big population right now that's
57:07for sure you take more people in Taz our Australia we got no homes down there either mate okay so that's the problem
57:15we have we got plenty of homeless out in the street so it be very unfair for me to say to other stalians yes we should we should be asking more a lot more
57:21people to come in here when we can't accommodate what's already here I think that rubbish but I also say something about what you were saying yeah make
57:28Australia make again that would be fabulous you know I had to have a bit of a make Australia make again yeah I had to I had to have a bit of a giggle today
57:34about your um tariffs of um you know $30 million you're going to be able to make out of that because apparently your I
57:42think it was your treasure was talking about Chopsticks which I found very amusing so we've learned nothing out of Co because apparently we can't even make
57:49chop stits here in this country are we importing them and toothbrushes toothbrushes too Stephanie
57:56sorry can I just just jump in very very quickly um the the complex man like the
58:02stuff that we need to make in particular like for instance you know if it's a choice between Chopsticks and say for
58:07example the next vaccine or the next thing that cures cancer or the next thing though like I tell you we we
58:13should be putting our eggs more in that basket that's what we're trying to do like valuable exactly those type of
58:20things um and we can't necessarily just we you know Joey is right we can't just rely on our population but the reality
58:27is we are also you know we have set up trading relationships particularly within our region and other countries
58:33where our products are rated and we do need to be able to bold on markets through that and for us to give up I'm
58:40not saying that's necessarily the way that you were putting it but the reality is we've had heaps of people say over
58:45the years we just can't do manufacturing and we've seen other countries be able to do manufacturing and with the fact
58:53that we've well we might have a small population we got strong trading relationships means we can make it here
58:58and ship it everywhere and that's where where our head should be I just don't think we've learned anything out of Co at all we had to wait for supplies to
59:05come in uh God help us if if we need to go up there and and protect our country because there's not enough weapons
59:10there's hardly any rounds here uh we've got enough fuel to last us two or three days all that's going on by the way just
59:16so you know so um I'm not so sure and sooner or later that unemployment rate is going to sneak back up and I tell you
59:22what there's a lot more jobs in manufacturing than what there is in making medicines and I don't have a problem with you doing that but you
59:27should be able to do both European example big Market is that why we can't
59:32make stuff here well okay you mentioned Germany manufactured goods here in
59:38Australia we gave up our manufacturing it won't be easy to start manufacturing final goods again uh and it would be
59:46futile to try to do it in one go but what we can do in this country is
59:51this take Europe Europe is about to introduce a border adjustment carbon tax
59:58which means that Chinese electric vehicles going to Europe are going to face a tariff because you know the
1:00:07nickel and Cobalt inside them batteries and so on is produced using brown
1:00:13Technologies not green technologies what Australia could do because we have vast areas ired areas you can just fill them
1:00:20with solar panels just a major new Renewables expansion program for the purposes of creating green hydrogen not
1:00:27to export it you cannot export it in large distances that is crazy uh in order to to create plants for refining
1:00:35Cobalt Copper from South Australia iron steel uh nickel to refine it and make it
1:00:42green before you sell it to the Chinese to put it into their cars to avoid the
1:00:47adjustment so the I'm give you an example of the kind of green Industrial
1:00:53Revolution that Australia can participate in but that requires a government that has a courage to do it
1:01:00it will take something like the investment of the snowy scheme you know big government public investment for the
1:01:07purposes of you know ditching fossil fuels creating Renewables and use them
1:01:14to create a new intermediate manufacturing base nothing else will work that would
1:01:22work and that's all we have
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